West German Items, Boots, Helmet, Knife..

[DennyB]

I would appreciate any help in properly identifying these West German items, first is the boots. These are different than most West German boots I have seen as they don't have the buckle. They have numbers 415 682 68 around the inside top then some other numbers in white down inside that I can't make out other than a 30 were two of the numbers.

[DennyB]

More boot pics

More boot pics

[DennyB]

Now the helmet

Now the helmet

[DennyB]

Now the knife

Knife, dated '70

[DennyB]

Knife & medallion

These were all brought back from Germany by a man stationed there in the mid 1970s. I am planning on listing these on Estand and I would like to know if these items were to a certain unit or any information that would assist in the description.
Thanks. Denny

[Gordon Craig]

Denny B,

It would be difficult to prove that all of these items came from the same unit since they are general items. The helmet is police, possibly from Berlin because of the colour, and the boots could be police as well. Take a look on the back of the fingers of the helmet liner and see if it is marked to "PP Brln GB". These marks are often found, but not always, on helmet liners of helmets worn by polizei in Berlin. The badge for a specific walk in the 70s and would not have been worn on a uniform.
The knife is one that was standard BW issue in the 70s so again not a specific item.

Regards,

Gordon

[DennyB]

Thank you very much Sir!

[Collectinsteve]

The boots are interesting to me. First pair of jackboots I ever bought are just like these. I bought them at a militaria shop in Bavaria in 1990.

As you say, BW jackboots have buckles on the sides. This is true for BGS and Polizei boots. But these have none.

After I started learning about this stuff I thought mine might be Feuerwehr or something other than military. However, the Bundeswehr punches two holes (close together from the same tool) into leather items to show that they have been turned in. This is to prevent scams where soldiers continually turn in something, it goes out the back door, then comes back in to be returned again. Since it's not practical to mark it with the "A" ink stamp like cloth items, the punch seems to be a practical way to achieve the same aim.

Both of my boots have this mark. They also have standard BW soles.

My guess is they are Wachbatallion personnel or other formal "honor guard" positions. From what I can tell they come in different styles over the years, but consistently without buckles.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

These do not look like Wachbatailon boots to me. Their boots have leather soles and heels with steel horseshoe cleats on the heels. Although I've seen the leather soles replaced with composition ones. The shaft of the boot is also higher than other boots.
Still look like polizei to me.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Good point about these being composite. I didn't notice that picture. OK, I agree that WB is out of the running. I was also thinking resoled (which mine appear to be) or a possible variant for specific duties (rubber soles are easier on the feet than leather/metal). But composite rules that out.

I'm back towards BW Feuerwehr. They definitely use jackboots and I'm pretty sure they don't have buckles. As far as I know Polizei, both standard height and riding style, have buckles. Just like BGS and BW.

Could also be Austrian, I suppose.

Here's a Multi-Board thread I found:

http://www.multi-board.com/board/ind...&postID=562564

Maybe some info there.

Steve

[Collectinsteve]

Whoa. Actually, I hit paydirt with that Multi-Board thread. Look VERY closely at the soles of the second set of boots in this catalog:







That's a very distinctive sole and it's a direct match for the one in the catalog and no buckles either. The timeframe is also perfect (mid 1970s). Though it's a taller boot than what Denny posted here. Still, it seems to be too similar to dismiss.

Denny, are there two hole punches along the top rim of either boot?

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

Another great find on the Multi-Board. We should have considered officer's boots versus enlisted men's boots. So we can consider these boots as being worn by a BW Officer. At least as far as the catalogue is concerned.
The numbers on the inside of the boots don't completely match my understanding of how BW boots are marked but it is possible there were a number of different marking systems over the years. For instance:
415 682 68 - 415 should indicate size; - next should be width but I don't see any numbers that corresponds to width (perhaps 415 indicates size and width); - 682 should be month and year of manufacture; and 68 should be the manufacturers code.
Here is a more typical BW markings from another pair of boots in my collection;
275 -110 W - 02 - 99 - 12 where 275 = size 43; 110 W = width; 02 99 = Feb. 99; 12 = makers code.
Now on to study all of the interesting info you posted for us from the Multi-Board.

Regards,

Gordon

[DennyB]

Steve, there are no holes punched in these.

[Collectinsteve]

Based on the catalog, I'm guessing these were private purchase boots. And if they were privately purchased, then the officer would not have to turn them in. And if they weren't turned in... no holes punched.

Which seems to go right along with how these items were acquired.

All seems good to me

Note that the two holes punched is a good way to "prove" the item is surplus BW, but the lack of holes means nothing either way. The item might not have been turned in (which I strongly suspect is the case with your boots) or the supply personnel forgot to put the mark on (no system is perfect). It's the logic that "the absence of proof is not proof of absence".

Steve

[DennyB]

If the 415 indicates size, 41.5 is about an American size 8 1/2 but these seem to be bigger than that, probably closer to a 9 1/2 or 10 would be my estimate.