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**Klaus1989** · 01-02-2013, 10:59 AM

Look like a sandfarbene Dienstjacke for Unteroffizier of the Panzergrenadiere. If shoulderboards are original to tunic, I am not sure. It is earlier example with turned back cuffs. According to label, from 1965. At this time, no collartabs for these. These were worn overseas in hot/tropical climates. As Bw not participate in peacekeepers missions then, these were some type of observers or trainers (like for Luftwaffe in Texas/New Mexico).

Gordon collects these and could probably tell more about them.

Regards
Klaus

**pinkepank** · 01-02-2013, 02:34 PM

thank you Klaus for information the here are few other pictues i also picked up a luftwaffe jacke and cap can you tell me anything about those please

close up of shoulder :
http://s1297.beta.photobucket.com/us...ml?sort=3&o=22

luftwaffe
http://s1297.beta.photobucket.com/us...05340537612367
http://s1297.beta.photobucket.com/us...53811723518968
http://s1297.beta.photobucket.com/us...14114288164345
http://s1297.beta.photobucket.com/us...74057347204511

thanks for help any

**Klaus1989** · 01-02-2013, 08:30 PM

The shoulderboards on first tunic, it is hard to see, if they original, because they can be changed so easy. At some time, there were also matching shoulderboards in sandfarben, but at another time, regular grey ones worn with this and I forget, which was first.

Anyway, the Lw uniform is standard enlisted uniform, worn 1957/58 until 1962, when shoulderboards changed from pointed sewn-in ones to rounded slip-on. The altgold buttons and 2 cufftitles is correct for all Lw personal at this time. Label has date 1960 on it. I see no holes on shoulderboard, so rank would be Flieger, if no traces on sleeve (Gefreiter to Stabsunteroffizier wore sleeve and not shoulder ranks in early 1960s). Are those yellow collar tabs with the wings/"gulls", because they look plain white in photo (I assume, that this is from camera flash)? Hat is correct for enlisted ranks, but could be later one? Need to see more photos, especially of inside.

I collect no more Bw (only BGS and WW2), but nice finds!

Regards
Klaus

**Collectinsteve** · 01-02-2013, 10:23 PM

Nice find! It is not easy to find the Sandfarbe uniforms from the times before 1970s.

I don't know if the collar tabs were authorized or not. I have seen many from 1950s through more recent times with collar tabs on them already. I don't know if this is because regulations were ignored or if there were different regulations for different times.

I also have a Weiß jacket and a Sommer jacket from before 1962. Same design as the Sandfarbe one. Both came with collar tabs on them (one for Brigadier General, one for Hauptman).

Steve

**Asbjoern** · 01-03-2013, 06:09 AM

To my knowledge and the fact that there are at least traces of the seems of collar tabs at all tunics I know they were conform to the regulations on the khaki tunics... oposite to the white tunics which had to be worn plain.

The khaki coloured boards were used between the invention of the khaki uniform and late in 1962. After this time the grey boards were worn on them. As this happened in the same periode as tha change from pointed to rounded boards the rounded sandcoloured boards are rare...

Jens

**pinkepank** · 01-03-2013, 06:49 AM

**Klaus1989** · 01-03-2013, 01:19 PM

I know, that sandfarbene uniforms have collartabs later, but I thought, that early ones had none. Maybe I confused them with the white ones.

The collartabs on Lw tunic are the correct early type for this time.

Regards
Klaus

**Gordon Craig** · 01-03-2013, 01:29 PM

pinkepank,

These early (first model) sandfarben uniforms were designed for wear in hot climates from 1 April to 31 October in areas south of the 40th paralell. Specific countries listed where they could be worn were;
USA, Canada, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Turkey and the southern part of France. They we re not to be worn in Germany. Basically, the same as the areas where this type of uniform was authorized for wear during WWII.
Period photographs indicate they were worn primarily in the USA by Bundesluftwaffe personnel at training bases. Since all flying training took place in the USA during this period this is only logical. To a lesser degree they were worn by the Bundesmarine while at sea. The Heer was authorized to wear them but I have never seen a period photograph showing them worn by the Heer. That they would have worn them in the USA as well is logical as helicopter pilots were trained there also. During this time period, German law prohibited the BW from serving outside of Germany, other than for the training mentioned above, so there was very limited opportunity for the Heer to wear a summer/tropical uniform.
The first model uniforms were made of a very stiff type material. Almost canvas in feel. Other uniforms of the first type can be found in white for the Marine and rarely in blue for the Luftwaffe.
I won't comment on the grey uniform as that has been well covered by others except to say that they date from the same time period.

Regards,

Gordon

**pinkepank** · 01-03-2013, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Gordon Craig View Post

pinkepank,

These early (first model) sandfarben uniforms were designed for wear in hot climates from 1 April to 31 October in areas south of the 40th paralell. Specific countries listed where they could be worn were;
USA, Canada, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Turkey and the southern part of France. They we re not to be worn in Germany. Basically, the same as the areas where this type of uniform was authorized for wear during WWII.
Period photographs indicate they were worn primarily in the USA by Bundesluftwaffe personnel at training bases. Since all flying training took place in the USA during this period this is only logical. To a lesser degree they were worn by the Bundesmarine while at sea. The Heer was authorized to wear them but I have never seen a period photograph showing them worn by the Heer. That they would have worn them in the USA as well is logical as helicopter pilots were trained there also. During this time period, German law prohibited the BW from serving outside of Germany, other than for the training mentioned above, so there was very limited opportunity for the Heer to wear a summer/tropical uniform.
The first model uniforms were made of a very stiff type material. Almost canvas in feel. Other uniforms of the first type can be found in white for the Marine and rarely in blue for the Luftwaffe.
I won't comment on the grey uniform as that has been well covered by others except to say that they date from the same time period.

Regards,

Gordon

WOW

now thats a lot of knowledge thank you for taking the time to tell me

**Klaus1989** · 01-03-2013, 02:23 PM

Forgot to look at newer photos of cap. The label says 1965, so cap is slightly later than tunic (so it would go with round shoulderboards).

Regards
Klaus

**pinkepank** · 01-04-2013, 12:29 PM

Thanks everyone for the help

as i don't have the space to collect these and would rather they go to a person who will apreciate them anyone want a bargain

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