Miscellaneous Early Photos

[chiffonnier]

Found 4 pictures that belong together,each ca 8x8cm.
First 2 soldiers sitting on dolmen (is that correct ?) or hunebed as we say.
Ancient graves.
And a bunch of armored crew members wearing their beret in different fashion styles.

[chiffonnier]

Here's a tracked vehicle again with a barrel so a tank in my opinion.
I don't think someone ever told these fellows how to wear a beret properly.
Note the handkerchief Gunsmoke style.
Kees

[Collectinsteve]

Interesting to see one guy has rank sewn onto his shoulders instead of the usual arms. Another has standard arm rank sewn on. From looking at pictures and seeing items on eBay, it seems rank on coveralls was not common.

Also interesting to see G3 rifles with these crews. I would think Uzis would be issued to AFV crews, not full rifles.

Steve

[Asbjoern]

Regarding the Dolmen (in German also Hünen-Grab which could be translated to giants grave) these pictures will be taken on the Bergen Training ground... there is a group of these graves called the "Sieben Steinhäuser" ( seven stone houses) which is lokated in the training area. Although this specific part is closed for trining from time to time this is ignorred.

The vehicle is a SPz kurz aka Hotkiss ... An APC designt to carry half a group of Panzergrenadiers, the tank is armed with a 20mm autocannon. Therefore the guys with the G3 might be Grennies and not tankers... . Some Hotchies were also used by the recce trooops which would in this case declare the fashionable uniform stile....

It was used between the late 50ies and the early 80ies.

Jens

[chiffonnier]

I've spent weeks in the field myself near Bergen when I was in the Dutch army.
Never saw those ancient graves as far as I can remember.
Did see more modern graves at Bergen Belsen memorial centre.
Every Dutch soldier that served in Germany has been there.
It was sort of mandatory.
Thanks for identifying the tank again and your comments.
Kees

[Guardian 5]

Kameraden,

Here is an evocative vintage post card from the "Deutsche Bundeswehr" series titled "Panzergrenadiere 'abgessen'". Doesn't that HS 30 look cool?

Note the United European Defense Force (Europäschen Vereidigungs Gemeinschaft or EVG) model canteen carried by the greni on the left who also sports a "thermos" model ABC mask carrier containing the Type 54B Protective Mask.

Both grenis are wearing the dreaded Kampfanzug Modell 1959 better known as the “felt louse” (Filzlaus).

The manner in which the grenis are holding their early model G3s is very unusual; have any Bundeswehr veterans tried this method?

Thanks,
TJ

[BWilhelm]

They're G1's. Note the long flash hiders and the folded bipod on the right one. Here's an early STG58 for bipod comparison:

[Gordon Craig]

Kees,

The berets in wear may be the ones with the hard inner hat to protect armoured troops and thus the strange look.

Regards,

Gordon

[chiffonnier]

Kees,

The berets in wear may be the ones with the hard inner hat to protect armoured troops and thus the strange look.

Regards,

Gordon

Thanks for clearing that up Gordon.
Here are some Bundesluftwaffe pictures to give to the miscellaneous early picture thread .

[chiffonnier]

There's no info on the back of these small snapshots.
Besides that they are printed on AGFA Brovira photo paper.
All the best,
Kees

[Collectinsteve]

Kees,

That looks like a graduating class of senior NCOs. Very unusual to see even one uniform like that, not to mention a dozen! Very nice.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen a picture with the cuff titles on a 1955 Affenjacke. I did not know they used them since the beginning.

Steve

[chiffonnier]

Steve,I think it could be unusual to see the things you mention because not a lot of photos came to the public until now.
And by now I mean that the time has come that early Bundeswehr career soldiers and also enlisted men have come to a certain age.
That means they are at a point of natural death or need to be in an elderly home.
In both cases houses are cleared from clutter.
When moving to a home living in a 2x2 square meter apartment someone needs to downsize enormously.
When dead everthing goes what next of kin doesn't want to have.
I bet as we speak people in Germany are throwing away old photographs that collectors as we could appreciate.
There must be thousands of early BW pictures left in Germany.
Task for the collectors to save as much as possible.
All the best,
Kees

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

The Luftwaffe cuffbands were not used from the time of the institution of these uniforms. They were issued a couple years later and added to the existing uniforms.

Regards,

Gordon

[speedytop]

Hi,

the Luftwaffe stripe was worn direct in 1955.

Bundesgesetzblatt 1955, page 452, "Erste Anordnung des Bundespräsidenten ...", 23. Juli 1955:
"Artikel 3
II. Allgemeine Abzeichen:
...
3. Die Soldaten der Luftwaffe tragen einen dunkelblauen Ärmelstreifen mit silberner Umrandung und silbernen Schwingen auf beiden Unterarmen."

In May 1956 the text changed:
"2. Es werden getragen:
...
2. b) bei der Luftwaffe ein Ärmelband mit Schwinge auf beiden Unterarmen."

Now Generals could wear golden stripes.

KKB, Preisliste Nr. 1, valid from 15. Oktober 1957, page 5, No. 40:
Ärmelband für Luftwaffe
für Generale ......... Paar 17,00
für Offiziere .......... Paar 11,00

Uwe

[Gordon Craig]

Uwe,

Thanks for the correction. I should always check my books before making statements from memory.

Steve,

Sorry for my error.

Regards,

Gordon