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    #1

    Post war K98 pouches

    Hello,

    I am selling these on the estand and not sure where to put them now as I don't know if they are original or post war. I was told earlier another pouch I had was post war (Same maker) but these really look like they were made pre-1945. Just need to get some clarification. Thanks!

    Sam

    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...40#post5489640
    Last edited by THATGUY; 09-17-2012, 07:12 PM.
    Tags: None
    #2
    I have read, that the stamps with "GmbH" (Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung) in company name are postwar BRD, but I am not sure, if this 100%correct. It could be someones assumption. I am not pouch expert, but would share this information. I have only 3 wartime pouches and no confirmed postwar to compare.

    Regards
    Klaus

    Comment

      #3
      Gentlemen,

      Yes GmbH is a post war marking.

      Regards,

      Gordon

      Comment

        #4
        Here is a wartime bill,the letters are in capitals,would this make a difference with wartime and post war markings?.John
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #5
          GmbH do exist since 1892.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesells...4nkter_Haftung

          Lars

          Comment

            #6
            Lars,

            I was aware that the laws governing incorporation in Germany were in effect for some time prior to 1945 but my impression was that "GmbH" was used as a post war marking. The WIKI article you quoted is not clear on this. It does mention some different markings but I do not think that it covers all of the markings used nor the time frame of when the different markings were in common use. The letter posted shows G.M.B.H as a marking used at the time the letter was written. No doubt more research is needed in this area and thanks for your input.

            Regards,

            Gordon

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by Gordon Craig View Post
              Lars,

              I was aware that the laws governing incorporation in Germany were in effect for some time prior to 1945 but my impression was that "GmbH" was used as a post war marking. The WIKI article you quoted is not clear on this. It does mention some different markings but I do not think that it covers all of the markings used nor the time frame of when the different markings were in common use. The letter posted shows G.M.B.H as a marking used at the time the letter was written. No doubt more research is needed in this area and thanks for your input.

              Regards,

              Gordon
              'GMBH' equates to the Anglo-American 'Pty. Ltd.', which can also be expressed in full as 'Proprietary Limited'. This essentially means a corporation where the liability of the members is limited to the extent of the value of their shareholding in the entity and which does not trade it's shares to the 'public',ie. only available to private/select subscription (and proprietorship).

              Although Wiki is not an approved academic reference resource (as it is not peer-reviewed), on this occassion it is substantially accurate (at least as to the date these entities came into usage in business). These corporations (or, as they are described more commonly 'companies') were in existence, in Germany well prior to the end of the nineteenth century.

              Another oft-encountered descriptive in German commerce is 'AG', which also indicates a corporate trading entity open for public subscription, ie a 'public company' which, in the English/American descriptive would have the letters 'Ltd' or word 'Limited' after it's name.

              N
              Last edited by Nachrichten; 10-04-2012, 09:40 PM. Reason: Correction of punctuation

              Comment

                #8
                Apologies, I was 'called away' before I could complete my posting.

                As I have noted above, both of these 'types' of corporate entity existed prior to 1945 (and, indeed, prior to 1900). One will sometimes find 'AG' markings on military-related wartime items (Google 'images' for Zyklon B cans and you will see what I mean). Why? Simple really. The 'public' corporations are larger entities and therefore more likely to engage in large-scale production of material which could/would be used by the military.

                As to the 'GmbH', which are smaller concerns, it is possible that the same would be involved in the manufacture of military 'hardware', but less likely. The scale of their operations being smaller, it is less likely that these entities would produce items which are encountered in 'militaria collecting', eg. belts; pouches; etc.. That said, it is still possible to encounter items (like the illustrated receipt/invoice in post #4) which has clearly originated from a private corporation. We may even encounter it in items such as private-purchase clothing and the like.

                So the best conclusion here is that the presence of the letters 'GmbH' on an item does not necessarily bespeak post-1945 provenance, but one should always consider the nature of the item upon which those letters appear.

                I have not addressed any consideration to RBN's and post-1943 production, as that will just open a whole new 'can of worms' .......................

                N
                Last edited by Nachrichten; 10-05-2012, 12:20 AM. Reason: Typo correction.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Nachrichten View Post
                  Apologies, I was 'called away' before I could complete my posting.

                  As I have noted above, both of these 'types' of corporate entity existed prior to 1945 (and, indeed, prior to 1900). One will sometimes find 'AG' markings on military-related wartime items (Google 'images' for Zyklon B cans and you will see what I mean). Why? Simple really. The 'public' corporations are larger entities and therefore more likely to engage in large-scale production of material which could/would be used by the military.

                  As to the 'GmbH', which are smaller concerns, it is possible that the same would be involved in the manufacture of military 'hardware', but less likely. The scale of their operations being smaller, it is less likely that these entities would produce items which are encountered in 'militaria collecting', eg. belts; pouches; etc.. That said, it is still possible to encounter items (like the illustrated receipt/invoice in post #4) which has clearly originated from a private corporation. We may even encounter it in items such as private-purchase clothing and the like.

                  So the best conclusion here is that the presence of the letters 'GmbH' on an item does not necessarily bespeak post-1945 provenance, but one should always consider the nature of the item upon which those letters appear.

                  I have not addressed any consideration to RBN's and post-1943 production, as that will just open a whole new 'can of worms' .......................

                  N
                  ................ and on that note:-

                  http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=626993

                  Note the letters on the can illustrated. Pre-war use of 'GmbH' by a well-known manufacturer of chocolate.

                  N

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Nachrichten,

                    The lettering on the can is actually "GmBH" not "GmbH".


                    Regards,

                    Gordon

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Gordon Craig View Post
                      Nachrichten,

                      The lettering on the can is actually "GmBH" not "GmbH".


                      Regards,

                      Gordon
                      We're both wrong.

                      It's 'GMBH'.

                      N

                      Comment

                        #12
                        N,

                        Right you are. Funny how the eyes will play tricks on you. Thanks for your comment. So now we have two war time examples marked GMBH.

                        Regards,

                        Gordon

                        Comment

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