PPBln Y Straps

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

A couple of days ago I received set of blue webbing Y-Straps marked to PP Bln. I was not aware that they wore anything other than the leather Y Straps. Were these web Y Straps worn with the four pocket service dress tunic or with a different uniform? For reference purposes I'll post the leather PP Bln marked Y Straps from my collection as well as the blue web ones.
The leather ones first.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

The markings on the leather Y Straps.

[Gordon Craig]

The blue web Y Straps.

[Gordon Craig]

The markings.

[Klaus1989]

These have appeared every where lately on ebay and surplus websites (sometimes as NVA), so I suspect that they large stock was recently imported. My theory is, that these are later model to replace leather y-straps with canvas, since Bw use canvas at this time and maybe seen as more "modern". BGS and other Landespolizeien never replaced leather and wore until 1970s/80s, but Westberlin had of course a "Sonderstatus".

Evidence is for this theory: all leather PPBln-marked straps, that I have seen are marked late 1950s/early 60s and all canvas are from late 1960s. Both have those strange front loops, that we never determined purpose for in earlier thread. I would assume, that canvas for the field uniform, and that y-straps no longer worn with 4-pocket tunic at this time. In early years, Bepo had mixture of service and field uniforms on different exercises in field, like in other police organisations, but later (at least in other police) they appear to wear solid-colour BGS-cut field uniform more often. Not sure, if it helps. I have only seen photos of Berliner Polizei from early 1960s and 1980s-present (and very few Bepo), so can not say about photo-evidence.

Another point to add: BGS (and I guess other Polizeien) used at first y-straps like leather pair in first post, but without front loops - almost identical to "Koppeltragegestell für Kavallerie" from WW2, but around 1957 switch to the better known style with spring clips and round flap on back strap. In Berlin, it appears, that they kept their own version of this "first pattern" much longer and chose to change pattern to canvas - but otherwise keep similar, when they finally switched. I look still for a BGS-marked early type, but so far have only seen in photos unfortunately.

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Thanks for your thoughts. I would assume that the web straps are for a field uniform too but I have only seen a couple of pictures of field uniforms in wear by the Berliner BePo. In both photos they are wearing Y-Straps and they are the leather ones. In one photo they are wearing the four pocket service tunic. In the other they appear to be wearing a field uniform. Both are copy write photos so I can not publish them. These are very early pictures as the BePo are using American WWII firearms. I would assume that the field uniform these Y straps were worn with would be blue but I have never seen a picture of a blue Berlin BePo field uniform. Here is a photo of Berlin BePo on a Tag der Polizei taking part in a sporting event and they appear to be wearing a field type uniform. This picture probably dates from the late 50s to the early 60s.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

The early Bepo "field uniform" is blue grey 4-pocket tunic, in summer weight material. Stephan Militaria had one for sale several years ago. The grey style in cut of BGS-Tarnuniform is introduced first sometime in 1960s. It is interesting, that they wear tschako covers in your photo. I have never seen this before.

Search in internet find nothing new. I assume, that you have seen the photos from Berlin Brigade website? They show only leather y-straps, but they are from early years. Must be before "Vereinheitlichung" (forget English word for this, but hope it understood) of weapons 1961/62, because they have some British and US weapons (Sten and Browning MG). Interestingly also appear to wear Gamaschen with low boots instead of normal "Knobelbecher" and some type of short jacket (short field jacket or shirt? - then must be very early):



Some interesting infos about structure and vehicles of Berliner Bepo (in German) in link. Someone mentions a film "Preis der Freiheit" that shows the Bepo. I looked it up, it is a West German propaganda film about DDR Grenztruppen from 1966. At end, protagonist deserts to Westberliner Polizei.

http://www.nva-forum.de/nva-board/in...pic=8059&st=15

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Thanks for the link to the Berlin BePo on the NVA site. Very interesting stuff. The blue field uniform must be very scarce since I have never seen one. Hard to tell if the BePo in the picture you posted from the Berlin Brigade page are wearing a blue uniform or not. Stephan had one of the schako covers for sale a couple of years ago but I did not buy it because I had no reference for it being worn by the Berlin BePo. I do now with the picture I posted. He wanted way too much money for it anyway. My schakos look better without a cover anyway.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

The blue canvas y-strap would not be worn with blue uniform, because grey was worn at this time. They are blue to match the field equipment. Although I assume, that belt remained black leather.

Found this photo from old post by collecting Steve in another thread. The ones in previous photo could wear some type of combi like this. Probably for winter months to spare the uniform and keep warm.



Here is short jacket, another field uniform. It is 1st model green summer field uniform, before they adopted blue (the olive M35 helmets also from this time). Very strange that no form for shoulderboards, because that how they wore early insignia normally. But is marked PPBln in photos. From stephan.de website:
http://www.stephan.de/php/de_neuesfe...~li=1345938317'



Regards
Klaus

[Klaus1989]

Here is photo of what I think could be the blue lightweight/field tunic from the Bavarian M1 Carbines website (www.bavarianm1carbines.com). According to caption is Berliner Bepo in October 1961. A little late to wear summer tunic, but colour is lighter than hat or trousers. Anyway, they are same cut, only material is different. At this time, still had rank on shoulderboards and not sleeve. It certainly resembles the one, that Siegmund Stephan had for sale. I wished, that I saved the photos.



Correction to earlier post: I think, that the gaiters I mentioned in earlier post could be like early Bw 2-buckle boots, if you look at lower photo, they appear to be one piece with boot.

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Thanks for all your time and help in researching these Y- Straps. The pictures help a lot. I have heard of the brown helmets worn by the Berlin BePo but never had any reference for them or a brown uniform to go with it. Thanks to you, and Stephan, I now have some. I saw a brown helmet for sale on ebay.de earlier this year but didn't buy it becuase I was unsure of its authenticity. Hard to tell if it was real or not as all of the blue helmets I have seen have not been marked which made me suspicious as the PPBln seemed to mark everything.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

We are still not closer to find evidence for the blue y-straps in photo. But that will be hard, unless someone has a book for Berliner Polizei from late 1960s. Noticed that several of the police in the photos wear the Sten mag pouches stuck in the belts and only one actually on it. Strange way to wear a pouch!

The dealer Zib Militaria in Hamburg has the olive/brown Berlin helmets. He receives his surplus often from old depots, so I assume, that his designation as Berliner Polizei is correct. He sells mostly reproductions, but sometimes some West German. I bought a BGS-Splittertarn Zeltbahn from him.

http://www.zib-militaria.de/epages/6...roducts/150055

Regards
Klaus

[uscob]

To bring this back to life.
Just sorted some Boxes in Storage and found some Y-Straps where I first thought they're BGS, but all are marked Berlin.
Some with the old Stamps with GB for Gross Berlin, some with the Later P.P.BLN.
There I saw the 2 different Styles. One with just 2 Double D-Rings one with these and additional Pack Rings like for an A-Frameas also seen on the blue Web Straps. Also must have some of these, so let's see when I find these.