Splittertarn M-43 - Opinions Please

[sammlermws]

I just picked this up locally and would like your opinions please. The only info I have is that the guy I got it from said his buddy sent it to him from Germany, thats it.
There is a spot of loose stitching and I was able to peak under to see it's single sided print on the cloth.
My guess is that someone had used it for reenacting or tried to fake a WWII piece.
Is it fantasy or a messed up original BW hat?
Thanks!
Lots of photos for examination...

[Asbjoern]

The BW never had fieldcaps in camo before the 90ies....and never would have purchased stuff sewn in such a sloppy manner.
So is most possible something made for reenactors ment to be a "fieldmade" WH cap ...


Regards,

Jens

[Collectinsteve]

That's cut from a BGS Zeltbahn and someone stitched a repro Wehrmacht bevo badge onto it. Like this one:



Not only is Jens correct there never was a hat like this in BGS or BW service, but the evidence of the WH badge pretty much confirms this is yet another example of someone trying to reproduce a WW2 item by butchering a post war item.

Steve

[sammlermws]

Thanks guys, that's what I was thinking too. Not sure what I want to do with it now. Perhaps I'll find a nice repro WH patch for it and sell to a reenactor or just keep it as an example of BGS zelt material.

[Uncle Kurt]

BGS These hats are very rare to find.
There is very little material from this early period of the BGS
1952-1955

[sammlermws]

So what would the value be in this condition?

[Asbjoern]

I don`t knwo exactely what Kurt tries to tell us... but whatever it is this is never an official issue BGS / BW hat. As stated the BW never had splinter camo caps, the BGS may have had them. They definetely had such caps in swamp-camo and these are for sure rare...and for sure never manufatured in such a sloppy stile!! An original BGS hat may sell for more then 50,- € but as they are offered seldom there s no real marked price...

Regards,

Jens

[Collectinsteve]

Agreed. This hat is definitely made from a Zeltbahn. I have no doubts about that. There are only two production items for BGS Splittertarn:

1. Zeltbahn
2. Hood for Zeltbahn (not a carrying bag, just a hood)

The two are made from different materials and the hoods come in a little more variety of colors than the Zeltbahns (from my experience). The cloth is distinctive when looked at very closely.

The BGS Sumpftarn hats were made late 1950s (1958?) through early 1960s (1963?). They were professionally made and top quality. There is only one style and it is not the common TSR/STURM type that is common on eBay. They are extremely rare now, even though they were standard issue for the time period. I have seen these sell for over EUR 100 lately.

I suppose it is possible that a member of the BGS had this custom made for himself back in the 1950s time period. However, clearly someone tried to make this look like Wehrmacht, therefore I think the better possibility is was made by a dealer or a reenactor.

BTW, if there ever was a large amount of surplus Zeltbahns of some sort out there, someone made a M43 hat out of them. If the cloth looks like 3rd Reich, you can bet there is a M43 hat in that pattern. There is (or was?) a guy here in the US that made M43 and boonies out of things like Amoeba, French 1950s Lizard, 1950s Swedish waves, Austrian Dot, etc. Quality was actually pretty good. I've seen M43s in Belgian Brushstroke and probably other things if I thought about it longer. The M43 style is very popular and a good way to make more money off a Zeltbahn.

Steve

[Uncle Kurt]

It was at the Federal in the early days around 1952 a few articles from this camouflage pattern
Tarpaulin, steel helmet cover, glove, hood and smock.
They are just very very rare.
We must remember in the beginning of time there was great lack of everything.
Uniform and Equipment

[Asbjoern]

Kurt, that may be possible that there were some hats of this kind used in the early BGS - maybe even tailor made - but not in such a low quality ! This would not be a last ditch product with seems going in curvs even missing the fabric, this would have been good craftmenship ...

Jens

[Collectinsteve]

The Zeltbahns and hoods are from the early days and are not difficult to get. I have three of the hoods in my hands now and there is usually a Zeltbahn on eBay each month. I've got a near perfect one so I don't bother buying them any more (I've had three).

The smock and trousers are extremely rare and are probably from 1955 or 1956 (I think we nailed a date down for those). Apparently they were experimental before they decided to try Sumpftarn.

I have a pair of gloves (trigger mittens), but they are made from a Zeltbhan and are crudely made.

I have never seen a helmet cover, but the hood does fit over a helmet. The BW, French, Belgians, East Germans and other nations of the time did not have helmet covers, but did have hoods which could be used as helmet covers. I suspect this is the same BGS.

I have never seen a hat. Even if I am shown one, this particular hat looks like a home made hat intended to be used for a Third Reich fake. Anybody with basic sewing skills could have made this. As I said, lots and lots of companies make M43 hats out of Zeltbahns and make them in much better quality.

As a BGS collector who will pay an obscene amount of money for a BGS Splittertarn uniform, I wouldn't pay $5 for this hat. Just saying

Steve

[Klaus1989]

I see this thread just now. Kurt is right, there was BGS fieldcap in BGS-Splittertarn that was made on some level in mid 1950s (I think experimental, and not tailored, but need to check), bt not issued widely, if at all. I saw one on German forum once, but it had stamp inside and was better made. Identical to later sumpftarn, but no buttons or insignia. There are very rare and I think one in this thread fake - bad stitching.

The helmet covers were made from the hoods by unit tailors. I suppose, that hood was used without modification also.

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Hi Klaus! Good to see you here.

I do not doubt that at one time Splittertarn Zeltbahns were turned into hats and helmet covers by unit tailors. This is quite common. In fact, look at BW Amoebatarn and Splittertarn helmet covers. The former is made from Zeltbahans, the latter from hoods. Sometimes well made, sometimes very crude. But they are not issued items and anybody can make one today just as easily as 60 years ago.

Given the hat's bad tailoring and obvious use as a faked Wehrmacht hat... I think the chances of this being a hat made for BGS use is smaller than the chance it was made by some guy using his mother's or wife's sewing machine.

Collectors have had a similar question about Austrian camouflage M43 hats. There are tons of them on the market, all made from Zeltbhan material. Some made by Bundesheer tailors, most made for commercial purposes. But is there a genuine issue cap? The evidence suggests an experimental cap was made in the 1960s. There are pictures of 2 such caps and the have clear BH markings and are of different design than the others. There is no possibility of confusing the two types.

If there are pictures of a BGS Splittertarn cap with some sort of markings inside, I for one would love to see it!

Steve

[Klaus1989]

ok, here is photos. I was wrong, size is written in cap. The cap posted on Miltaria-Fundforum by Malborghetto, who is also member here. I hope that he does not mind, that I post these photos. I can not find the infos about the manufacture of the caps.

Notice that that there are two vent holes (unlike fake). He says that cap also had buttons like sumpftarn version (but no insignia):
http://www.militaria-fundforum.de/at...8&d=1172245758

Cap is lined and size written in it:
http://www.militaria-fundforum.de/at...9&d=1172245769

He says this about splittertarn caps:

Das erste Modell in Splittertarn ist wohl als sehr rar einzustufen, da recht unbekannt und so gut wie gar nicht am Markt...Die Splittertarnmütze wurde damals noch ohne Kokarde getragen. Irgend ein Volldepp hat leider die zwei kleinen Kunststoffknöpfe abgetrennt und die Mütze durch einen SS-TK "aufgewertet".

Translation: "The first model in splittertarn is to be considered rather rare, because it is rather unknown and so good as non existant on the market...The splittertarn cap was worn at the time without cockarde. Some fool unfortunately cut the small plastic buttons off and "improved" the cap with an SS Totenkopf.

Regards

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

I am unable to see the photos as your url leads me to the log in page for the forum. Perhaps you could post just the photos instead.

Regards,

Gordon