Berlin Polizei Removable White Top Visor

[BaselA]

I recently purchased this visor not knowing its origins, but have done some research and found out it is an early Berlin police officer's cap. At first, based on the construction, I was convinced this was from some obscure TR civil or police organization! Could anyone tell me the type of police that wore this cap, the time period it is from, and also how rare a cap like this is?

I am also interested in restoring it with proper insignia, if someone could point me in the right direction I would really appreciate it. It is marked PP Berlin GH under the sweatband.

Here is the thread that includes photos.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=577376

[uscob]

I recently purchased this visor not knowing its origins, but have done some research and found out it is an early Berlin police officer's cap. At first, based on the construction, I was convinced this was from some obscure TR civil or police organization! Could anyone tell me the type of police that wore this cap, the time period it is from, and also how rare a cap like this is?

I am also interested in restoring it with proper insignia, if someone could point me in the right direction I would really appreciate it. It is marked PP Berlin GH under the sweatband.

Here is the thread that includes photos.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=577376

Answered in the other Thread. BTW it's GB for Grossberlin.

[Gordon Craig]

BaselA,

I also answered in the other thread and you will receive a notification on that post. Too bad someone almost ruined a rare early PP Berlin polizei hat by trying to make it into a TR one. Unfortunaely that happens a lot and we loose these early caps in their original badging. I have a later badged cap and I'll try and post pictures of it tomorrow.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

BaselA,

Lets start off with photos of your cap so people don't have to switch threads.

[Gordon Craig]

#2, white top cap

[Gordon Craig]

Now a comparison with my later issue hats. Notice on this early hat that the cap band has a wooly, fuzzy appearance. Later caps have the ridged surface found on BRD caps from to 60s on. There is a link between my cap and the removable white top cap. The very bottom of the cap band on my cap, below the ridges, has a wooly, fuzzy finished surface. New PP Berlin polizei uniforms were displayed in 1960. They were made of a better quality material than that used previously, displayed a new cap badge and rank system. It would appear that this new uniform was adopted but the old cap badge was retianed. Oak leaves and a gold/red/black cockade was added to the cap band while the polizei star was moved to the top of the cap. The police star on my cap was adopted in 1954 when the old crown, as introduced in 1934, was discontinued and a new crown adopted.

[Gordon Craig]

The PP Berlin markings in my white cap compared to the markings in BaselA,s cap. The darker picture is from BaselA's cap.

[Gordon Craig]

The PP Berlin caps displayed in 1960 and introduced sometime shortly after that.

[Gordon Craig]

The markings in these caps changed and is shown below. I do not know the date of the change but it must have been in the 60s. The makers mark on the sweat shield of both of these caps is identical.

[Gordon Craig]

The question still remains as to the correct badge for this cap. I would say that the 1954 issued cap badge could logically be worn with it. Even if there had been a different cap badge worn on this early cap it would have been changed when the 1954 badge was introduced. Therefore the 1954 star would be worn on the cap band of this early cap.
Visor caps were worn in the 50s but I am not sure when they were introduced. In the forties the old TR schako was worn with a new cap badge. Obviously I need to complete my research in this area.

Regards,

Gordon

[BaselA]

Gordon, that is some excellent information, thank you so much. Based on the imprints in the cap band, I think it was probably updated with a wreath and cockade from it's original insignia. There is also a hole on the middle of the white top. The fake LW eagle that was on there had only 2 prongs, so I bet the 3rd was left from a shield.

When I restore, I will definitely adhere to your advice. Are these early insignia relatively easy to find ?

[Gordon Craig]

BaselA,

Badges like this are not so easy to find in the U.S. Nico has said earlier in this thread that he has some of these stars left. It shouldn't be too expensive to ship this star from Berlin to your address in the states. I suggest that you PM him and discuss cost etc. I don't have one of these stars that is not on a cap so I can not help you out.

Regards,

Gordon

[stonemint]

Great thread (as usual!) Gordon. Those PP Berlin caps often end up with with their sweatdiamonds torn out and LW insignia added to be sold as TR-LW visors.

Do you all have a Polizei visor thread on this forum?

[Gordon Craig]

Stoenmint,

I don't recall us having a dedicated polizei visor cap thread. Why don't you start one?

Regards,

Gordon

[stonemint]

Stoenmint,

I don't recall us having a dedicated polizei visor cap thread. Why don't you start one?

Regards,

Gordon

I will be happy to, but I do not have any myself. The problem is that so many BRD Pol visors end up being re-badged and sold as TR visors.

For example, this is one that I am sure is postwar, but is being sold as TR right now on Ebay: