Can you identify this camo cap? Similar to early BW

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

A few months ago a fellow collector started a thread seeking confirmation that a hat he had was BGS. He posted link to fotos of the cap. Later he sent me pictures of the cap and asked my opinion. My response was that I did not know what it was but it was not BGS. Subsequently he asked if he could send me the cap and perhaps I could identify it once it was in my hands. Unfortunately, I have not been able to identify it. I have taken pictures of the hat with examples of Heer camo and BGS camo of a similar type and perhaps someone here can indeity it for me. The designs are done in pale green and pale brown on a light brown background. Drawing shapes are similar to BW Heer but are not the same.
The colours look washed out and one would expect that when the turn up is put down the actual body of the cap would be in darker colours but this is not true. It is the same pale colours all over. I do not see any "rain drop" pattern to the cloth. Your comments would be appreciated.

Regards,

Gordon.

[Gordon Craig]

#2,
The buttons on the front resemble those used on the Wehrmacht zeltbahn but are smaller.

[Gordon Craig]

#3,

the cap does not show any signs of being worn.

[Gordon Craig]

#4,

[Gordon Craig]

#5,

[Collectinsteve]

Hi Gordon,

As I just said in a different thread, I think we need to look at this with the old saying "the most likely answer is most likely the correct answer". Most likely this is a chopped up Zeltbahn made into a hat simply because most camouflage M43s floating around out there are fakes, reproductions, or post war that people mistake for WW2.

Having said that, every item should be judged individually. Looking at these photos I think it is a BGS Zelt that was cut up for a hat. Probably by a WW2 reenactor, but that again is just "most likely" case.

The strikes against it are:

1. It is faded everywhere very evenly and yet shows no signs of wear as a cap (as you astutely noted).

2. A real BGS hat would have been made with small pebble buttons. Heck, most tailor made WW2 hats had small pebble buttons.

3. Rarely does one see true M43 hats in camouflage. Almost all of them, tailored or issued, are "fake fold" type.

4. I don't like the thread color for a number of reasons. If this was a factory made item the thread should be faded out since the cloth is extremely faded. If this was field made when the cloth was still fresh I would expect something similar. I doubt any soldier would have a cap made from such a totally faded piece of cloth. It is possible the stitching held it's color, but it's not likely.

When an item has so many "odd" things about it the chances of it being anything other than a fake/reproduction are small. Odd items should never be dismissed casually, however VERY odd items need more proof than common items.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

Thanks for your comments. I was hoping that someone out there, like you, with a lot of experience in a variety of camouflage uniforms from different countries might recognize this camo pattern. Unfortunately, that has not been the case. After much consideration and study of this cap I have only a couple of things to add before I send it back to the owner.
1- I don't beleive that it was made from a faded BGS zelt. The background colour is a definite tan shade with darker brown and green shapes printed on it. A much different background colour than was used in the BGS zelts;
2- The cloth is of a much lighted type than that used in any of the BGS or BW camo clothing in my collection;
3- The shapes to the brown and green pattern are not the same as any recognized BRD camo pattern.
Therefore, I do not belive that this cap was made for issue to the BW or the BGS nor was it made from any camouflage material used in the BRD.
Thanks again for your input Steve.

Regards,

Gordon

[SprogCollector]

Gordon,
Any indication of the camo pattern being printed on both sides of the fabric? I realize this is a loaded question since the only way to answer is probably needing to open a seam.

[Gene T]

It looks to me like the ear-flaps are unlined, so it should be easy to tell whether the print is double-sided. If the flaps ARE lined, then someone really went all out to put together this unusual hat!

Judging strictly from the construction details, I would say that this hat is far better made than the typical "field-made" or home-made examples put together using Zeltbahn body parts. And if the "rain streaks" really are absent from the printed pattern (rather than simply faded), the question then becomes why would someone who is either talented with a sewing machine or has access to such talents bother to go through the trouble of making a fake deluxe M-43 hat using a custom-printed fabric that is so obviously non-standard and visually "wrong" for WW II even from a moderate distance?

My gut feeling here is that this is an early ('60s - '70s?) custom tailored piece made for an enthusiast who had more money than sense, using repro fabric available locally at the time (perhaps in some place like Japan or Taiwan?).

There was also Bud O'Toole, who produced some interesting silk-screened camos before the repro business went global, but I am pretty sure his Splittertarn would have had streaks.


Gene T

[Marc Sherriff]

Three of the holes in the side would match an Edelweiss badge the rear one is a long way off.
Possibly a film prop or maybe even Austrian.

Marc

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for your comments. The ear flaps are unlined so it is clear to see that it was only printed on one side. As with most collectable things that I hold in my hands I noticed something today that I hadn't before. The top part of the fold up, which is protected from the sun etc., is not as faded as the other parts of the cap. This doesn't show up in the photos because you have to look closely at the cap to see the difference in the colours.

Regards,

Gordon

[SprogCollector]

Wasn't there an early BGS pattern that didn't have the rain streaks? Only printed on one side (reverse was white, IIRC).

EDIT: Found the website I was thinking of. Not sure how accurate the info is
http://www.kamouflage.net/camouflage/00157.php

[Gene T]

You may or may not be aware of this, but the "Collectinsteve" who posted above is the very same Steve who is credited with that sample image of BGS Splittertarn on the linked page. Steve knows his camos!

BGS Splittertarn does have streaks, though they are quite pale, just like the overall pattern itself. When I first saw these images, I also thought that I was looking at faded BGS Splittertarn. However, since Gordon is assuring us that the streaks are not present, the whole thing becomes a lot more mysterious.


Gene T

[SprogCollector]

How does the fabric compare with known BGS/BW/WH fabrics?

Who else used splinter camo, postwar? The only ones I can think of are variants with more pronounced raindrops -- Poland, Switzerland, etc

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

The BGS anorak used as background reference, post #8, for the cap is the early type with the light "rain drop" pattern. It is white on the other side. Since this cap is printed on tan coloured material that made me rule out early BGS material/zelt used to make this cap. The cap material it is of a much thinner quality than that used in either BGS or BW camouflage items.
As for other countries that used similar patterns of camouflage, there were some but I have ruled out any that I am aware of because they all used a definite rain stroke pattern or a different colour scheme. A couple of the closest examples would be Swiss 1947-55 and Polish 1960 patterns.
Thanks again for everyones comments. They are all valuable.

Regards,

Gordon