Back from the cleaners

[usmedalman]

I posted a few pics of this greatcoat a couple weeks ago when I first received it. At that time the cuff titles were stuffed in the pockets and the threads from where they were removed from the sleeves were still visable. My local tailor used the old threads as a guide and stitched the cuff titles back on. I think the cuff titles are silver buillion since they have a heavy patina and are almost golden colored.

The greatcoat is interesting because it is a WW2 Luftwaffe coat, with the 1938 dated tailor label still inside, indicating it belonged to "Fahnenjunker-Unteroffizier Reibold." The officier quality greatcoat was converted from its WW2 configuration to meet the new Bundeswehr Luftwaffe 6-button configuration and you can see where the old button holes were sewn shut and new ones made. Also, you can see the patch sewn over the inside slot for the dagger hanger.

If anyone can help me complete the greatcoat with a set of 1950-1960 era shoulderboard buttons I would appreciate it. I would also welcome the chance to purchase a pair of salty captain or major shoulderboards from the same period.

Here is a link to the original post: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=563334

[usmedalman]

More pics.

[SprogCollector]

Looks like they came out great!

I'm still curious/intrigued by the use of this 3rd-Reich era greatcoat within the Bundeswehr. Clearly the jacket is modified to the BW button configuration but I have trouble visualizing a Bundeswehr officer being allowed to wear it -- at least officially.

The Bundeswehr appears to have taken great care in differentiating itself from the Wehrmacht in most aspects of its uniforms. It just seems counter to this to have its soldiers wearing Wehrmacht uniform items of any kind. In this case, officers wearing sewn-up/visibly modified clothing?

[Collectinsteve]

Agreed, and yet who in their right mind would "fake" something like this? If they did, maybe they could post here and explain the logic behind taking a very valuable jacket and modifying it to something nobody would even know to look for

Steve

[usmedalman]

Gents, it is certainly befuddling how this could have happened, and I understand the skepticism, however there is clear indication that this jacket was period modified (i.e. 1950s) and worn with the cuff titles attached long enough for the fabric to fade and leave a clear color difference once they were removed. I have attached a picture of the coat before the cuff titles were reattached and you can clearly see the difference, especially on the left (bottom one in the picture) sleeve.

My explaination is that the officier simply could not afford to buy all the uniform items needed when he was accepted back into service. His tunic, as you can see in the link on my original post, is very nice quality so he probably wore this coat for a couple years until he felt he could afford a better one -- or until his superiors told him to replace it.

[Collectinsteve]

To be clear... I for one am not skeptical at all Nobody in their right mind would butcher a WW2 LW item to make it look like a Bundeswehr item. This would be like taking a bar of gold and painting it silver. Someone may be stupid enough to do it, but when faced between two choices the most likely choice is usually the correct one. Which means you probably have a really interesting early piece of individualized Bundeswehr history.

Steve

[SprogCollector]

I wouldn't say I'm skeptical. Confused would probably be more correct. Certainly the greatcoat pattern was very close in cut/color to the postwar version. Maybe some form of field/work coat? If not, and this was a daily wearer, it then returns us to an earlier post of an alleged wartime LW cap modified for BW use.

[Collectinsteve]

Interesting hat!! In this case I think there are two possibilities:

1. WW2 LW member wanted to keep his old, trusty hat while serving in the BW. Entirely plausible.

2. Someone stripped a WW2 LW hat of insignia, either because of Denazification or for some other reason. Someone later on put the BW stuff on it by mistake or simply because it was easier.

I like #1 better

Steve

[Forseti]

Hi!

Yes I would also "like" 1.

But I think 2 is more realistic.

I just can not imagine a BW Soldier wearing a Wehrmacht hat anyway. Also: It is a Officers hat but the BW insignia is EM. A former Officer as EM? Possible but not very realistic. Also EM are not so free in their choice of garment as an officer would be. So another "red flag"

Just my 2 Euro Cents

[Collectinsteve]

Good point about the Altgeld badge. I hadn't thought about that! You're right to doubt a WH Officer would drop down to BW Enlisted rank.

OK, my vote is now firmly behind #2 for the hat.

Steve

[Bill D.]

Just my two cents.....

The post-war period in Germany saw massive clothing shortages for quite some time. This, coupled with the serious and difficult economic conditions in Germany, led to the re-configuration of wartime clothing on a large scale.

Most collectors are familiar with post-war photos that show German polizei wearing their Third Reich period uniforms and shakos from which the eagles were removed. Some years ago at a show I saw a jacket being offered for sale that was clearly a Wehrmacht officer's tunic that had been converted after the war into a Bavarian loden jacket. I also some time ago read the memoirs of a man who, as a young German, had been in both the Hitler Youth and, later, in the Army towards the end of the war. His father, who was a tugboat Captain, had been in the Marine SA. In the portion of his book dealing with the post-war years he wrote of his mother making alterations to his father's SA uniform in order that he could wear it as a civilian dress suit.

To me, this overcoat perfectly reflects the post-war clothing shortages and the struggling economy that made it imperative to make certain that nothing was wasted.

Again, just my two cents, gentlemen.

[speedytop]

Hi Bill Dianna,

this is correct for several years in the post-war period. I know it!
But we we are now in the years 1955/1956/1957, 12 and more years after the war.


Hi all,

I'm sorry, but I can not follow the theories about this greatcoat.

We don't know, when Reibold entered the Bundeswehr as officer. The rank could be Hauptmann or Major.

Does really anyone believe, that a German officer in the new Bundeswehr would wear such a darned uniform part, especially in the Luftwaffe?

Officers received the essential uniform parts free, and they must buy some uniform parts for the "Ausgeh- und Dienstanzug", rough distinction: green and grey.

For the grey parts they received money (Einkleidungshilfe/Bekleidungszuschuß), first 750,-DM for all the needed parts, later retroactive 965,-DM. And they received a monthly compensation of 26,-DM
(for Heer and Luftwaffe, Marine something more).

In these years all the ex-servicemen, also the officers, had a qualifying period of 4 months (Eignungsübung von 4 Monaten). In this period they wore officially delivered uniform parts, grey and green, all free! They had to buy nothing.
After this probation period they had the option, to buy the worn uniform parts direct from the army, for a low price!

And many did it, especially the greatcoat!

Uwe

[Collectinsteve]

Hi Bill Dianna,

this is correct for several years in the post-war period. I know it!
But we we are now in the years 1955/1956/1957, 12 and more years after the war.

My thoughts exactly. Germany was in pretty good shape by the 1950s and I don't recall seeing anything about shortages even when the BW was created out of thin air. So I do not think this applies to the hat.

As for the greatcoat, I don't see why someone would go through all that trouble to convert a WW2 greatcoat to BW standards. It's not like the hat, which involves taking two badges and sticking them on.

However, I think we can rule out cost to the soldier and not having greatcoats available. Neither seems possible. The only thing I can think of is soldiers like to keep old stuff sometimes. There were American soldiers that had to have their Springfields pried from their hands even though the Garand was 10x better rifle. The "lucky coat" that kept this guy safe during a winter on the Russian front might be difficult to let the moths eat.

Steve