Early BW officer's 'ski cap'

[Forseti]

Hello everybody!

I too looked at my hats. I have in all5 pieces. 3 Heer (including one Officer) and two Luftwaffe (also one EM and one Officer).

None of them had any grommets.

@Sprogcollector:

As Gordon allready mentioned it would be nice if you can tell us the maker of this cap and maybe also a few more pictures.

As allways here, an Interesting discussion

keep in touch
Michael

[SprogCollector]

left to right:
Albert Kempf, 1959; GuF Brand, 1962; Leonhard Döll, 1960

My question on the first cap has always been that it's a slightly different fabric from the others (even though Heer and Luftwaffe are different colors, the fabrics are identical in texture/weight). Also the buttons are spaced slightly father apart and the buttons are either polished nearly smooth or are/were smooth type.

[Gordon Craig]

Foorseti,

Thanks for your post. The more info we have the better off we are.

SprogCollector,

Thanks for the makers of your hats. I don't see any appreciable difference in the material used in the cap that started this thread. The things that you mentioned could be accounted for my the flash etc.

Regards,

Gordon

[SprogCollector]

The fabric on the first cap has more of a coarse/fuzzy feel -- similar to the wool on WW2-era caps although somewhat smoother. I would expect some color shift from fading/use as can be seen between the 2nd and 3rd cap. All are issue caps with labels/stock numbers present.

I think we discussed this first cap several years ago. I'll check the older threads

[Forseti]

Hello!

All wool caps of the Bundeswehr (with the exception of the Filzlaus) had been made of Gabardine (Strichtuch/Trikot).

If the cap is made from fieldwool (ww2 similar) and not Gabardine Wool I think it is NOT Bundeswehr. It may be Deutsches Rotes Kreuz or Technisches Hilfswerk or Ziviler Bevölkerungsschutz ZB, or whatever.
Maybe BW Insignia had been later apllied.


So as allready mentioned it would be helpfull if you can post a picture of the inside (lable!) of this cap. A lable can tell us much more.

Thank you

Forsi

P.S. Here is a picture of my caps:

[RJKG]

My cap, which started the thread, is of grey gabardine fabric, and it appears to have a narrower buttoned flap at the front of it. It also has a wire stiffener around the crown which causes the crown to protrude forward over the buttons. This is visible to some extent on my initial photo's.

[SprogCollector]

I used to have a few privately tailored BW (Heer) caps several years but traded/sold them on already. This one has always been somewhat of a mystery. The color is definitely very close to Luftwaffe blue-grey. Auftrag Nr. R II/1/3

I don't think it's a Berlin Polizei cap; not Bundesbahn; wrong color for DRK; wrong color for Bayern Feuerwehr, etc. Not sure about Bundespost. I think the pattern was different and had false flaps.

[Forseti]

Hello!

Thank you for posting the picture. As I allready thought it is not Bundeswehr (in my opinion). You dont see a Versorgungsnummer or the US-Nr. (or a KKB or else for private purchases). Auftragsnummer sounds military or paramilitary too, but its not BW.

I am not familiar with polizei. Berliner Polizei may be possible...

Thanks again for sharing
Michael

[SprogCollector]

Not Berlin Polizei. I've had a few of those. Most have dark blue piping. All that I've seen are marked as Berlin Polizei inside.

I'm pretty sure that Bundesbahn used dark blue caps. Early Bundespost??

I don't know of other organizations wearing grey-blue.

Bayern FW has blue but not blue-grey.

[Forseti]

Bundespost maybe ... I dont know.

But as far as I am aware Rotes Kreuz und THW (Technisches Hilfswerk) and ZB (Zivilschutz / Ziviler Bevölkerungsschutz (some decades) wore bluegrey wool uniforms.

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...20081013190629

[SprogCollector]

The DRK caps and uniforms I've seen are grey -- lighter than the early BW Heer but much darker than the current Heer feldmützen.

I'll have to see what I can find on THW and ZB uniforms. I thought these were also grey but I'm not sure. The other question is whether these organizations existed in 1959??

[SprogCollector]

Found this reference to THW uniforms on German Wikipedia.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histori...in_den_1960ern

My German isn't as good as it once was but if I'm translating correctly, I think it says the early uniforms were beige/tan colored and made from a denim-like material.

In the section entitled, "Die Uniformen in den 1960ern ", blue-grey is referenced but the timeframe was confusing to me. In any case, my cap is from 1959.

I'm seeing if I can find anything on Luftschutzhilfsdienst which is referenced in the above section. Blue-grey within this part of the organization would make some sense.

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

We are way off topic here. It is a topic worth persuing but I would suggest starting a different thread to discuss this particular cap and that we return to the initial discussion of air hole grommets in the sides of early BW caps.
I have taken pictures of the caps of vaious organizations in my collection but I will not post them here.

Regards,

Gordon