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Early BW officer's 'ski cap'

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    Early BW officer's 'ski cap'

    My early BW officer's'ski cap'.


    016 by rjkg, on Flickr






    017 by rjkg, on Flickr



    018 by rjkg, on Flickr

    #2
    What a beautiful, and unusual, label! Pity there is no date in it. I suspect it is quite early.

    Steve

    Comment


      #3
      Don't know why, but the images appear to have dropped off my earlier post. Here they are again:


      016 by rjkg, on Flickr
      018 by rjkg, on Flickr

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        #4
        How wonderful. Would love to have this hat in my collection.

        Bob Hritz
        In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

        Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.

        Comment


          #5
          RJKG,

          Yes you have an early BW Heer officers cap. I have one by the same maker but my cap was made for the Polizei Presidium Berlin and is marked as such. Mine differs from your in that the eagle is all black. The makers mark looks much more interesting in colour. My label is also missing the makers name so your post will help me a lot in research both caps. Perhaps we can come up with an approximate time frame for the manufacture of caps by this maker. Thanks very much for posting this cap.

          Regards,

          Gordon

          Comment


            #6
            RJKG,

            My memory failed me when I wrote my last post. My cap makers label has the makers name while your does not. The maker who uses this type eagle making is "Helvetia" and I have never been able to find any referrence to this firm on line. According to the label in my cap they were founded in 1898.
            The markings in your cap "Vert. Kleiderklasse f. d. Bundeswehr Koblenz" indicate that the cap was made for the first supplier of uniforms etc to the Bundeswehr. Their markings are oftne found in uniforms and are abreviated KKB in the early days. This marking changed to KKBw sometime in the 60s. Probably in the later half of the decade. I've rotated the picture of your cap so the writing in the makers label is easier to read. I'll post pictures of the interior of your hat and mine for comparison as well as pictures of the exterior of my cap.
            Interesting to note that your cap does not have the air vent grommets in the sides. Early BRD hats have been found without these air vents but they are rarely encountered this way. I've followed a number of debates on the Third Reich forum where someone with an early BRD hat with air grommet holes, with TR insignia, is insisting that it is TR period. I doubt that very much. I am surprised to see that your cap has not been converted to a TR cap. Early BRD caps are rare because of the large numbers that were converted to TR hats to increase their value. You own an interesting piece of BW headgear history.

            Regards,

            Gordon
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Gordon Craig; 11-02-2011, 10:55 AM.

            Comment


              #7
              The exterior of my cap. As it was made for the polizei it is green. The buttons are silver for the same reason. There is no insignia on my cap. Someone had removed the original insignia and replaced it with a repro Third Reich eagle. I have not replaced the insignia as I still haven't made up my mind what kind it should have.
              One of the possible reasons that I have not been able to trace the maker of this cap is that it was not made by a German firm. "Helvetia" is a name closely associated with Switzerland. For example, the country decals on Swiss cars are marked CH for "Confederation Helvetica". Perhaps these caps were made by a Swiss firm doing business in Germany? Just a random thought.

              Regards,

              Gordon
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Gordon Craig; 11-02-2011, 10:47 AM.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Gordon Craig View Post
                One of the possible reasons that I have not been able to trace the maker of this cap is that it was not made by a German firm. "Helvetia" is a name closely associated with Switzerland. For example, the country decals on Swiss cars are marked CH for "Confederation Helvetica". Perhaps these caps were made by a Swiss firm doing business in Germany? Just a random thought.

                That's not a random thought, Gordon. You had the right idea but went down the wrong path. See here (these guys really know their hats!): http://germancaps.forumactif.com/t32...stributors#143

                The maker's surname is Schweitzer. While he is not Swiss, it's obvious where the "Helvetia" connection came from.


                Gene T

                Comment


                  #9
                  Gordon,

                  it is:

                  Vorl[äufige] Kleiderkasse f[ür] d[ie] Bundeswehr Koblenz

                  vorläufige = preliminary

                  Uwe

                  Comment


                    #10
                    GeneT,

                    Thanks for the link to the site. So we have a Third Reich hat maker still in business after the war and making hats for the BW and Polizei. That probably makes the hat which started this thread earlier than mine because of the lack of air vent grommets.

                    Uwe,

                    Thanks for your input. I wasn't sure what the last letter in the first word was. Too small for me to read. I knew that it would be obvious to a native speaker.

                    Regards,

                    Gordon

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Gordon Craig View Post
                      GeneT,

                      Thanks for the link to the site. So we have a Third Reich hat maker still in business after the war and making hats for the BW and Polizei. That probably makes the hat which started this thread earlier than mine because of the lack of air vent grommets.
                      Are you sure that these BW hats had ever air grommets. I have 2 those hats - both without grommets. Here is an example made in 1960.

                      Could it be that only police hats had grommets?

                      I would als doubt that those hats were transformed into Third Rich hats. Wool, colour and lining is very different. You must be blind to be fooled. But those hats are indeed rare because they were only used a short time and in most cases thrown away.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                        #12
                        LuckyStrike23,

                        I stand corrected. I was sure some of my early BW hats made of this material had grommets but I just checked all of them and none of them do. Some of my early polizei hats have grommets and some do not. Thanks for correcting me on this point.
                        Almost any early BW hat can be turned into a TH hat relatively easily. It isn't hard to fool some people, especially those who don't do their research properly. That is what keeps the fakers in business.

                        Regards,

                        Gordon

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Great discussion! Hopefully answers the question of a why 2 of my 4 early (pre-1961) Luftwaffe fieldcaps have grommets while the other 2 do not. All of my Army field caps are post-1962 and none have grommets.

                          Not the greatest photo, but here are 3 of my Luftwaffe caps. The furthest left is dated 1959 and clearly has the grommets. The officer cap is dated 1959 and does not have the grommets. The enlisted cap on the right is dated 1960 and does not have the grommets either. I have one additional officer cap, also dated 1959, which also has grommets. All are issue pieces.

                          Last edited by SprogCollector; 11-05-2011, 08:35 AM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I looked at my caps too, dating from 1956 to 1962 ... all five (two officer versions, three EM/ NCO) have no grommets.

                            Jens

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Gentlemen,

                              Here are the caps in my collection. The General's cap on your left is of a different time period and of different material, its a private purchase piece, but I have included it because it does not have grommets. Two have sweat shields remaining. One is date 1962 and was made by Bamburger, the other was dated 196? and was made by G. u. F. Brand. It would appear that the majority of early caps produced did not have grommets. It would be very interesting to know who the makers were of hats with grommets.

                              Regards,

                              Gordon
                              Attached Files

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