Help with tunic..

[RodneyO]

Hi All,
First time posting here. This is my one and only West German tunic, and would need some help identifying the branch of service (maybe Panzer?), sleeve shield and if the shoulder boards had their piping removed. Would the beret go with the tunic?
Thank you for your help,
Rodney
West German*.jpg

West German.jpg

[Towarish]

Hey there Rodney,

unfortunately I can't see the images you have added.

Cheers,
Phil

[Asbjoern]

Hello Rodney ! Wellcome to the BRD forum !

Its a really interesting tunic as it is even over here in germany hard to get EM tunics ....

Depending on the pictures it is a tunic for a Soldat (private) as there are no signs of stripes on the sleeves which indicate a higher rank. He served in an artillery unit (red coloured collar tabs) attached to the Panzergrenadierbrigade 7 (which is shown by the Verbandsabzeichen (unit-patch) on the shoulder) . As it already has this a unit patch and shows the rounded shoulderboards it confirms to post 1963 regulations, the doubled french cuffs tell us that it is at least made before 1970... as it has no coloured piping on its collar and its shoulderboards it should not be made in the end of this period as these where standard from 1963 on. Or are there traces of a removed piping ?
You my confirm it by yourself as this should be an issued tunic which should have a label in the left inner pocket which tells us - beside manufacturer, NSN and contract number, its date of production...

The beret does not fit to this tunic as it came in general use after 1975 .... the soldier who owned this jacket would have word a dark grey sidecap or a dark grey visor hat, most possible with a red coloured piping ...

Regards,

Jens

[RodneyO]

Aloha Jens,
Thanks for the information. I'm not a West German Militaria collector but they sure had some nice uniforms and early WW2 style helmets. I especially liked the GSG9 Para style helmets.
Can you please post pictures of the dark gray side cap and visor hat?
Mahalo for your help!!

Phil, I think you have to be an Association Member to view the pictures..

Here's the inside pocket label: (Which is the date?)
WG inside label.jpg
What is the meaning of the stamped "A"?:
WG A stamp.jpg

[RodneyO]

Here's the shoulder boards and collar tabs: (Shoulder boards look like it might have had red piping. Will this hurt the value of the tunic?)
WG Shder Boards .jpg

WG underside collar.jpg

I might start a small collection of West German Militaria in the future!!

[Towarish]

Phil, I think you have to be an Association Member to view the pictures..

Here's the inside pocket label: (Which is the date?)
[ATTACH]1767905[/ATTACH]
What is the meaning of the stamped "A"?:
[ATTACH]1767906[/ATTACH]

Hi Rodney,

I've sent David the money for the association membership earlier that day - I hope things work out.

A means Ausgemustert - decommissioned.
It's like the DRMO stamp on US gear.

Greetings
Phil

[Asbjoern]

Rodney, depending on the label the jacket was made in august 1965.

The removed piping and the "A" stamp clearly reduce the price as you have to restore it before you`ve got a displayable jacket. As stated above issued jackets of the 60ies are hard to get especially in unmolested condition - what for sure does not say that they are expensive. If you are lucky to identify one on german ebay you may be lucky that its available for a "buy it now" price of 20 - 40 € ...
As it is difficult to replace the coloured cloth piping I would restore such an jacket to an NCO rank as the metal cord is easy to purchase and replace, also you can replace the complete shoulderboards faster then you can restore the old ones. As most of the jackets were dressed up individually and also changed when the soldier was transferred to another unit tins would not be inauthentic ....

At the moment I´ve no pictures of the fitting headgear to hand ...but scroll down a little, there you`ll find a thread on the piped sidecaps ...

Regards,

Jens

Edit: I foundat least the link to the hat-thread...:http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=478162

[SprogCollector]

Rodney,
Here is an appropriate visor cap to go with your uniform. Currently on eBay.de
http://cgi.ebay.de/Bundeswehr-Mannsc.../300527521369?

[Asbjoern]

Rodney,
Here is an appropriate visor cap to go with your uniform. Currently on eBay.de
http://cgi.ebay.de/Bundeswehr-Mannsc.../300527521369?

Are you sure it`s really an arty one ? The colour might also be Korallenrot or even Panzerrosa as the picture is really crappy ... I even received items in another colour while it was described as "red" ...

Jens

[Collectinsteve]

Yeah, it's very tough to tell what some of those colors are. Heck, even when you have them in your hands it's tough because of fading. I have some collar tabs that look like one color on the top side, but underneath it is much darker and is obviously supposed to be a different type.

BTW, the beret is not only too "new" for the uniform, but the beret badge is the second type with the German flag on it. I think it's 1970 for the first model and 1979 for the second?

Steve

[RodneyO]

Aloha Phil,
Thanks for the explanation on the inked stamp "A" (Ausgemustert). Not know what DRMO means I googled it- Defense Reutilization Management Office, I've a lot to learn in this hobby.

Jens, kind of bummed out that the piping was removed. I had a second tunic that I gave away (years ago) as the shoulder board's piping and collar tabs were of different colors. I hate to restore this original early dated 1965 tunic and will display it as is. Thanks for the link, now I know what overseas hat to look for !, (red piping one, right?), like that they all dated in the 60's.

SprogCollector, Thanks for the eBay heads up. I really know little to nothing about Post-war West German Militaria. I just wanted something to finish off my WW2 German militaria with.

Mahalo again for all you help,
Rodney

[PASSAUER8884]

I think so. Panzer and Fallschirmjager troops were issued berets first I think around the 1969-70 time frame, the badges lacked the flag then. When berets became universal around 1980, the new badges for the other braches had them from the start, and the Panzer and FJ troops had them added.

[RodneyO]

Mahalo Steve!! Beret is out, now will look for an early overseas hat like what Jens mentioned.... are they hard to find, the early 1960's dated ones?
Aloha,
Rodney

[Asbjoern]

Mahalo Steve!! Beret is out, now will look for an early overseas hat like what Jens mentioned.... are they hard to find, the early 1960's dated ones?
Aloha,
Rodney

If you know were to look: no ... Have a look into your PM box ...

I too prefer unrestored stuff ... but as some early BW stuff is harder to get then their TR equivalent you sometimes have to choose this way. And you`re lucky that only the piping is removed! On most jackets the collar tabs and the patch on the shoulder is removed also...

Regards,

Jens

[Collectinsteve]

Finding piping on its own very difficult. It's not fun to sew back on either. Which is why it's better to search out, find, and pay a little extra (if necessary) for a complete jacket.

Steve