BGS Sumpftarn Pants?

[Oberbootsmann]

Hello. I need help with the following pants. They seem to be BGS Sumpftarn but the date on the manufacturer label says 1985. I've been told that those Sumpftarn uniforms just were in use until the mid 70s at the BGS.
Does someone have more information?

Btw., I've googled the NATO stock no. on the label and it came up the following link: http://www.thebunkerwarehouse.co.uk/...-trousers.html

That seems to be an ordinary Bw trouser. How comes that the Sumpftarn pants have that label inside? Sure, I could be easily sewn inside a pair of REPRO pants but it is underneath the green seam!!!

Might it be a pair of a so-called "Truppentrageversuch" what means it was issued in small numbers to the troops to test it?
Regards

[Oberbootsmann]

Nobody?

[Asbjoern]

It may be a trouser made "following to the BW specifications" for the civil market ... Beside Fa. Koehler, which was an ordinary supplier for the moleskin stuff, which carried on making jackets, parkas and especially trousers for the civil market (and which for sure are near to the old quality level) some other firms used a kind official label to give their products an official touch of quality ... there are several fantasy "Truppenversuch" items - often labeled as made by a company named "SPECON" - in obscure camo patterns which bear a label with NSN... if you look to the central warehouse catalogue this number officially belongs to a completely other garment ...

Regards,

JEns

[Collectinsteve]

They come up for sale on eBay every so often and sometimes people pay LARGE amounts of money because they think it's some sort of rare issue. But it is not. BGS stopped using camouflage (slight exception for GSG-9) in 1976, the Bundeswehr never experimented with Sumpftarn.

I've had a couple of these trousers, one of which I bought in Germany in 1991. There was a large pile of them. Interestingly there was no shirts or jackets made as far as I know.

From the half dozen I've seen since, the labels all have "Kein Bundeswehr" stamped on them. The manufacturer is not always cut out, and I think one might have had black magic marker through the name (can't remember for sure).

Steve

[Oberbootsmann]

From the half dozen I've seen since, the labels all have "Kein Bundeswehr" stamped on them.

I don't know what you've seen but It reads "Keine Bundeswehrwä..". I guess it should be "Bundeswehrwäsche".

[Gene T]

It actually says "Keine Bundeswehr Wäre".

Here is another example:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...523978356.html


I wonder who would put such a stamp on these labels and why.

If it's the manufacturer, what would be the point of making a real-looking label, attach it to the garment in question, only to stamp it later with a giant red warning sign that essentially says "Not Real!"?

If it's the distributor or vendor, are they doing this in order to comply with some sort of law against selling fake surplus with real-looking labels? Or did they do this as a favor to the tiny community of BW collectors?

Any other possibilities? Does anyone know the real answer?


Gene T

[Oberbootsmann]

It actually says "Keine Bundeswehr Wäre".

Here is another example:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...523978356.html


I wonder who would put such a stamp on these labels and why.

If it's the manufacturer, what would be the point of making a real-looking label, attach it to the garment in question, only to stamp it later with a giant red warning sign that essentially says "Not Real!"?

If it's the distributor or vendor, are they doing this in order to comply with some sort of law against selling fake surplus with real-looking labels? Or did they do this as a favor to the tiny community of BW collectors?

Any other possibilities? Does anyone know the real answer?


Gene T

Thanks, Gene. It starts to be an interesting thread. I'm wondering why someone had torn off the manufacturer on the pants label. I'd have called them to get an answer ...

Regards

[Collectinsteve]

Sorry about my bad typing of the stamp. I'm away from home and was just going by memory.

In any case, it is quite unusual to see something like this stamp. In fact, I don't think I've ever encountered anything else like it. The only thing I can think of is back in 1985 it was still the Cold War and perhaps there was some paranoia that led to this marking.

Let's keep in mind something rather basic. The trousers are in the Bundeswehr design, but are in Bundesgrenzschutz camouflage. This alone is enough to "flag" the item as suspicious because there's no precedence for a cross over item like this. Then it is marked as not being Bundeswehr issue, and yet we also know it isn't BGS issue.

My guess is the trousers were made by a BW contractor (my label is intact, so I can find the manufacturer when I return home) in the patterns they already had access to. All they had to do was swap the cloth and bingo... something to sell to the commercial market. This is a common practice for manufacturers and therefore isn't unusual at all.

Steve

[theduke335]

STURM Mil-TEC ... I see these pants for sale at a store called JAX here in Colorado ..They have them in HEER splinter pattern too ..same label and everything $24.95 a pair ! hope this helps!

[Oberbootsmann]

STURM Mil-TEC ... I see these pants for sale at a store called JAX here in Colorado ..They have them in HEER splinter pattern too ..same label and everything $24.95 a pair ! hope this helps!

This helps a lot, thanks.

Another question: Is it possible that a 3rd Generation BGS Sumpftarn Parka come with a "Velcro (Klettverschluss) pocket on its sleeve? The Parka is a 1972 production.

Regards

[Oberbootsmann]

Is it possible that a 3rd Generation BGS Sumpftarn Parka come with a "Velcro (Klettverschluss) pocket on its sleeve? The Parka is a 1972 production.

I've opened a new thread for this question:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/FORU...92#post4463992

Regards

[Gene T]

The Sturm-MilTec pants I'm familiar with are all cut in the same pattern as US BDU trousers (and carried the Sturm-MilTec label). I've not seen them made in the moleskin pattern before. Is this something new?

I visited the Jax store in Ft Collins this past summer. A very massive and interesting place! It's probably one of only two mil-surp-carrying stores worth visiting anywhere near Denver (the second one is close to Water World in Denver, and isn't nearly as interesting).


Gene T

[Collectinsteve]

Yeah, definitely not the STURM/MIL-TEC trousers. Those are made only in US BDU style, which doesn't look like BW Moleskin.

Steve

[Oberbootsmann]

The Sturm-MilTec pants I'm familiar with are all cut in the same pattern as US BDU trousers (and carried the Sturm-MilTec label). I've not seen them made in the moleskin pattern before. Is this something new?

Let me ask the seller if he has some information.