When in their bag/hood, where are they carried ? they have belt loops on the back, so waist belt ? or always packed away in backpck or attached to backpack carrier ?
S.L.
S.L.
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I have never seen anyone who wore the tent section on the belt. We put it in the rucksack, there is a special pocket for it.Comment
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hoover...thanks for that ! I too have never seen the bagged zelt worn on a belt, I have the early rucksack, I will take a look for the pocket...Originally posted by hoover View Post
S.L.Comment
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Examined the rucksack...found the pocket ! the zelt in its bag is now in there....thanks again hoover.Originally posted by hoover View Post
S.L.Comment
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Cool! I didn't know about that pocket. I'll have to try it out.
BTW, going back in time on this thread... I forgot to mention that the Belgians also made a "Jigsaw" camo pattern Zeltbahn like this. I think they were all made in the early 1960s.
SteveComment
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Steve, they also had this shelter halve + bag in the moon&ball camo... I once had one of these purchased as "BW TrVers?" (quite cheap, so what, sold it for more..
). It was stamped as the first one in this thread: Strohmeyer Konstanz 1956
JensComment
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Moon & Ball
Hi Jens,
there are Tent accessories in different Belgian camo types which are produced by Strohmeyer; looks like they had a lot of export
orders in the 50ies and 60ies...
Best regards
ReinerComment
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Jens, skip down to my earlier posts
The Belgians had Moon & Balls, Brush Stroke, and Jigsaw. I'd have to check all of mine, but for the most part I think they were produced in Germany.
SteveComment
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Steve ,
What shade of Grey were these ?
owenComment
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Hi Owen,
The BW type or the Belgian? The Gordon posted some nice pics of the BW type. The Belgian type is more olive than gray.
As it happens, a couple of weeks ago I was cleaning up some stuff and took a picture of most of the ones I have in this style.
The first one is the type I originally thought was Swiss, but I'm now thinking is BW.
The Belgian OD type are not pictured as the ones I got did not come with hoods or tent pole bags (despite being unissued). My Belgian Army contact said soldiers have used these as ground sheets for decades.
Flecktarn also not pictured.
SteveComment
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reenactment set/collection value/ethics questions
A few months ago I made a trade with a gentleman for this military stuff without really knowing what it was, it just looked and smelled "old" so I took a bit of a gamble that it might be something interesting... if not to me, to someone else.
I've located a stamp that reads:
ABL
1956
L. Stromeyer & co. G.m.b.H.
Konstanz
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There appears to be:
1 complete zeltbahn
3 hoods/bags (a couple of aluminum buttons missing and/or replaced on two of them)
3 pole bags (one bag has one aluminum button missing)
12 aluminum poles
9 aluminum stakes
3 similar lengths of hemp cord with aluminum adjusters on them
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The camoflage patterns on the items appear to be identical. On one side is camoflage and on the other, solid green. The pattern appears to be the "brush stroke" from what I've read on this thread. To be certain, the pattern appears to be identical to the 4th one from the left in the image below (courtesy of Collectinsteve).
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Along with all this stuff is what appears to be 2 brand new reproduction zeltbahn tents that are constructed with heavy oiled canvas and aluminum buttons, very well made. Each tent has 3 wooden poles that have two dark metal bands on each pole and 3 cast metal stakes that almost look like weapons.. slightly curved but not bent or damaged. The camoflage patterns on each tent appear to vary slightly from each other and appear to be much different from the zeltbahn dated 1956. There are no hoods though and no tent pole bags with the reproduction set.
I can only guess that this collection once belonged to an individual who participated in reenactments.
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I honestly don't know what to do with it.
This really isn't my sort of thing but I would like to see it all go to someone who will really appreciate it.
I have no idea what it is worth individually or together and I can't list it for sale here because I can't justify paying $20 for a membership since this is most-likely going to be the only time I post an inquiry here.
I genuinely respect this forum and the rules. I do not wish to create any problems.
Are we allowed to "trade" here? I'm open to trading if that's okay.
Can anyone tell me about the value of what I have?
Respectfully,
Doobers
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I thought I recognized this thread when I saw the title
The Brushstroke stuff you have is definitely Belgian. The A.B.L. mark is the official declaration the item is Belgian Army.
As for the other two zeltbahns, without pictures it's tough to say what you have. If you describe what the pattern looks like (# of colors, basic characteristics, etc. for both side) and the shape that should be good enough. If they are square and double sided WW2 German Splinter pattern then what you have are Swiss.
You're going to run afoul of moderators if you try to circumvent the rules. Putting them up on eBay is a sure way to get rid of them. Value for these things are usually in the $20-$40 range unless you have something unusual.
SteveComment
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Doobers,
As Steve says, without pictures it is difficult to really know what you have. Send me a PM, I am sure you can figure out how to do that, and I'll send you my emailaddress. You can then email me pictures of what you have and I will post them for you.
Regards,
GordonComment
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Spanish use of half tent zeltbahns
Hi gentleman.
I´ve found this thread looking for some info about an Spanish half tent poncho that was use in Spanish Armed Forces by 50 - 70 of 20th century.
It was common to say that was employed by several units like Brigada Paracaidista and Infantería de Marina with this amoeba pattern but also by Special Operations units with other scheme or colours.
Mine is quite similar to the ones of this thread but the curious fact of Spanish ones is that they have sleeves, probably to give more protection against rain.
No markings at all.
Very difficult to find nowadays.
you can see more references at this blog:
http://perso.wanadoo.es/camouniforms/SPAINAMOEBA.htm
Here there are some photographs of one of my own.
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ala6QgzwZ1PHiSq2Zji1T1ANuoUI
There were also other poncho, Spanish mfg. same like german WW2 zeltbahns, triangle, but in OD. Original German zeltbahns were relatively common at flea markets like "El Rastro" in Madrid where I got two in mid 80es. released from Spanish military stocks.
Regards.
César.Comment
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That is a very rare, and very nice, Spanish poncho/shelter half. I'm a camo collector and have almost one of everything the Spanish ever made in camouflage, including the same one you have (though I think I'm missing the hood/bag). As far as I can remember this is the only type that has sleeves on it. Which makes things a little more interesting
Here's some history...
The trapezoidal shape appears to have started with the US WW2 "pup tent" (I don't know if it was inspired by something else):
http://olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_gear_shelter_half.php
In 1955 the BW got rid of their traditional triangular pattern and adopted the US shape. This makes sense because at the time the BW was using a lot of surplus US equipment. However, they included the button flaps for arms to fit through, similar to the old triangular style Zeltbahn. In addition the German system had a button on hood which also acted as a carry bag. The tentpole/stake bag was also a German innovation.
The Germans produced these for themselves in "Amoeba" camo as well as for the Belgian military in "Moon & Balls" and "Jigsaw" camouflage. The Swiss also experimented with using this same design in "Leibermuster" camouflage. I am not sure if the Swiss made them or if a German company did. Either way, the design is identical and they later abandoned it and returned to their traditional square shelter halves.
All of this was done in mid 1950s, with follow up designs coming out in later years. The current BW Flecktarn type is nearly identical to the 1950s type, for example.
Now here is the interesting part
The Swiss had two versions of the trapazoidal type; standard German design *and* one with added sleeves. The one with the sleeves was designed for bicycle riders. They are exceptionally rare. Even the standard type, without sleeves, is very difficult to find.
What does this mean? It means the Spanish type you have is based on a Swiss design which is based on a German design which is based on an American design. This is not surprising as a lot of Spain's post WW2 uniforms and equipment can be traced to foreign designs.
SteveComment
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