No national flags on 1st Model Moleskin jacket?

[Collectinsteve]

Hi all,

Tonight it suddenly struck me that my 1963 dated Moleskin jacket has no national badges on it! It came to me with one Gefreiter rank still attached and is in near new condition. I can't see any signs of the flags ever being on the jacket. No holes, no indentations, no stitch marks... nothing. I know that Filzlaus jackets and winter coats from the same time have flags, as did every field uniform after.

Does anybody have an answer?

Steve

[hoover]

There still were jackets in the 90´s without flags. I don´t know why, but it was not rare. If someone got a jacket without flag the tailors had to sewn them on.

[Collectinsteve]

That is strange! It is hard to imagine the clothing inspectors would miss such an obvious detail, but I know pretty much anything is possible.

OK, so my assumption now is that the jacket was supposed to have the flags on it but, for some reason, they were never attached at the factory or by the soldier.

Thanks!

Steve

[hoover]

Some ideas: We have had a lot of foreign officer canditades in the 80ßs and 90´s.
They were trained as a sort of military aid (like Guinea, Kongo, Egypt. And in the mid of the 90´s there were some of the Baltic states).

They didn´t had the flags but small cloth arcs with the name of the country.

Or maybe they simply were forgotten...? The inspectors wouldn´t test all boxes I think.

[Guardian 5]

Steve - I have one of these too, from 1966. There is no evidence of it ever having the flags sewn on.

As you can see here, the Hauptgefreiter strips were sewn on by hand.

Does two make a trend?

All the best - TJ

[Guardian 5]

Here's a look at the label.

Anything here stand out? Any evidence that would support Franks's theory of foreign use?

All the best - TJ

[Collectinsteve]

Very interesting TJ! Now you make me want to dig up various 1960s magazines and books I have to see if I can find any flags on the moleskin uniform!

Steve

[PASSAUER8884]

I have a 1963 dated moleskin myself that is unissued, no evidence of ever having flags. But my 1968 dated one does have flags. I also have the early HBT version of this jacket dated 1961 that lacks the flags.

[Collectinsteve]

Interesting! So it appears that the early versions of 1st Model Moleskin lacked flags, just like the previous Arbeitsanzug (the HBT uniform).

We have some evidence that flags were on as of 1968 and not on as of 1966. Which means, based on a small sample, it would appear that the change over date was somewhere around 1967.

It is interesting to note that there was some modifications made to the trousers around this time. I'm now thinking that there is enough changes to categorize the late 1960s uniform separate from the early 1960s and mid 1970s. This would mean...

1955-1963 Arbeitsanzug
1963-1967? 1st Model Moleskin
1967?-1970? 2nd Model Moleskin
1970?-1986 3rd Model Moleskin
1986-1991 4th Model Moleskin

PASSAUER8884, can you upload some pictures of your 1968 jacket? I am interested to see if there were any changes to it like there were for the trousers.

Steve

[speedytop]

The national flag (Nationalitätsabzeichen) is there since 1963.

Uwe

[Collectinsteve]

Hello Uwe,

That is what I have always thought, but we now have three jackets (two used, one possibly unissued) that show no signs of ever having the flags. This is unexpected.

If anybody has a jacket made between 1963 and 1967, please tell us if it has flags or not.

Steve

[speedytop]

Kunstwadl wrote, that they came in 1961. I do not know the correct year.

In the first years there was a difference between the "Arbeitsanzug" and the "Kampfanzug".

That could be, for a transition period, the same uniform!

As "Arbeitsanzug" there must not be the "Nationalitätsabzeichen", as Kampfanzug there must be the "Nationalitätsabzeichen"


"Der Arbeitsanzug wird zum allgemeinen Dienst in der Truppe, auf besonderen Befehl auch anstelle des Kampfanzuges, getragen."

Rough translation:
"The fatigue dress was worn to the general service in the troop, at special order also instead of the battle dress."

Enjoy it!

Uwe

[Collectinsteve]

Hi Uwe,

Well, this is an interesting theory! Perhaps 1st Model Moleskin was designed as a replacement for Arbeitsanzug, therefore it did not receive flags. But then around 1967 German soldiers finally got someone to listen to them and the 2nd Model Moleskin was introduced as a field uniform.

This is possible, I think, because somewhere I read that the Arbeitsanzug replaced Filzlaus as the field uniform. I always thought this was in 1963, but I suppose it could have been 1967.

Fun

Steve

[PASSAUER8884]

Sure, let me get some pics togther for you. I'll need to look at the Arbeitanzug jacket again, cant remember if it was in fact '61 or '63 dated

[Collectinsteve]

Pics of your 1968 jacket would be great to see. I'm expecting to see, maybe, a minor difference or two from the earlier jackets.

Since we know that the Arbeitsanzug definitely did not have flags, it doesn't matter if it was made in 1961 or 1963 because neither should have it. Might as well save the upload time for that one

Steve