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Identifying 1950s era BGS Straight Handle E-tools

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    #16
    Ok thank you TJ

    I have already heard things about the Bundeswehr modernization program.
    But nothing heard about the program's name.

    Day after day, I discovered that the history of the BW
    is complex and attractive.

    Do not read German is a serious problem in this case.
    Especially since the subjet was barely developed and discussed in the world of French collectors.

    Finally. Everyday is a great pleasure to learn with the WAF's BW Section.

    Thank you guys !

    Comment

      #17
      Kreitzer - We are learning together!

      I am happy to hear you are having as much fun as I am.

      All the best - TJ

      Comment

        #18
        Team - MP44 tom loaded this excellent photo of early BGS troopers on the Wehrmacht Equipment Forum in response to a query about straight handle spaten covers.

        For a Wehrmacht collector, one of the first things they look for when purchasing a spaten carrier is the the position of the buckle. Carriers with buckles on the on the right side are almost automatically classified as post-war.

        The suggestion that this placement was also used with Imperial Army and Reichswehr carriers was what prompted MP44 tom to post the below photo.

        I'm making it my mission in life to get to the bottom of this puzzle in an effort to clarify once and for all what an early BGS set-up should look like. In the meantime, I hope everyone enjoys this awesome pic.

        All the best - TJ

        P.S. - Are these guys wearing U.S. G.I. boots?

        CollectinSteve - Is that your flare gun ammo pouch being worn by the trooper on the left or an SMG magazine pouch? It would appear that this trooper is equipped with an SMG.
        Attached Files

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          #19
          Excellent photo! My complements to MP44 Tom

          There are several things that I don't understand about this picture:

          1. I am not familiar with a 4 pocket jacket without shoulder rank, green collar, or arm shield. There is a summer (or work?) jacket from around 1955 that has 4 pockets and no green collar, but these guys should have shoulder rank and arm badges. They have neither.

          2. The boots appear to be standard lace up boots, not ankle boots and obviously not jackboots. That's not something I was aware the BGS used, even as early as 1951.

          If it weren't for the hat and Zeltbahn I wouldn't be suggesting these men are BGS! But I am sure they are. I think the jacket must be a special version that is rarely photographed and hard to collect. Unfortunately, I think I sold one of these last year

          Yes, I do think the second man on the left has a SMG of some type. I can't tell what it is, though, because the angle is bad and the picture quality not great. Probably a Beretta. I agree that looks like the flare pouch on the right side of his belt.

          Steve

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            #20
            I would bet it is a MG tool pouch and the 2nd left man has a MG42 behinf him. I think I can see the bipod.

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              #21
              They wear early cotton 4 pcoket Arbeitsjacke/ Sommerrock (depends who you ask), that was often worn like field jacket before sumpftarn. They seem to disappear after sumpftarn jackets appear. There was another type work jacket in 1950s that has no breast pockets or insignia. I am not sure when/ why these 2 types worn. It has no shoulderboards or patch. For this type, patch and insignia could be later? It was not standard to wear them earlier. I would say photo is around 1957-58, because equipment (especially y-straps) - some K98s still used then. They could be recruits training.

              Boots are odd, could be the early (1955-56) Bw boots? Not know why they would wear them.

              I am not sure why others could not see my photo earlier. My computer show it.

              Regards
              Klaus

              Comment

                #22
                To revive this old thread, have some better infos, that should hopefully clear up the problem of BGS straight shovel once and for all, so will revive this old thread.

                Recently received this 1952-dated shovel. It has correct riveted construction of BGS shovel carriers. Appear to have bluing of low quality, that is heavily oxidised unfortunately and more brown as blue now.



                Rear view


                3 K in circle with year 52, from research this maker was Carl Krampe Wwe., Rummenohl (Westf.) and closed around 1983 or so.


                Rear of cover stamped Carl Busse, Mainz 1952.


                And most interesing, is the stamp of Bundesadler with BMdI (Bundesministerium des Innern) under it. This seem to confirm BGS use. Not common, but have seen BMdI stamps also on firearms and BGS gasmask cans.



                Regards
                Klaus

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                  #23
                  A few more views to show shovel construction. Blade is riveted and rivets ground off, like many WW2 shovels.





                  Have also acquired this interesting spade with Ideal logo, but not dates. Still in DE, will post more photos, when it arrive. It appear to be identical to the shovels in above photo with riveted straps, which not present on the Carl Krampe example. In contrast to TJ's Ideal shovel, this has corners welded to rear, like the Carl Krampe shovel.



                  It appear, that the covers and shovels vary slightly by maker. In general (from photos and known examples), one can say BGS shovels will have common features:

                  - riveted blade with ground off rivets
                  - metal ring or half-ring on handle absent
                  - often dark handles (overuse of linseed oil treatment?)
                  - belt loops and bottom corner always riveted
                  - covers will buckle to right and not on left (WW2), loop is metal, strap can be riveted or not (depending on maker), stitching on base of strap in rectangle, not 2 lines

                  So far known makers appear to be Carl Krampe Wwe., Ideal and Pionier. I am sure, that there are others. Allegedly also recycled WH shovels with postwar carriers, but not have proof.

                  Regards
                  Klaus

                  Comment

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