Estimating Value??

[SprogCollector]

As I continue to refine my collection, I often find myself in a position to sell off items that are outside the scope of the areas I wish to focus on. In many instances, the items are generic and pretty simple to sell. Others are more difficult.

A few years ago, I picked up what I thought would be an early BW Dienstmütze (modern version of the M-43). It turned out to be an officer's cap from a Labor Service Unit -- essentially US-run, contracted quasi-military organization which provided support to the Army and USAF in the early postwar years.

Short version: I have a cap from an organization outside the scope of my collection and I wish to sell it. From what I understand, LSU items are pretty scarce. Officer items even more so. I've never seen one of these caps for sale other than the one I have. So, what's fair value? The obvious answer is that it's worth whatever someone is williing to pay for it. Nice from an anecdotal standpoint but not helpful in the real world.

Which brings me to you, my esteemed collector colleagues! I welcome your opinions. Best guess at a fair value?

The cap itself is better made than the Bundeswehr versions. The interior is a satin/rayon material with padding/insulation to the sides and crown of the cap. The officer silver braid is the wartime, twisted-cord type. In lieu of frnt buttons, the cap uses two black metal snap fasteners (likely Prym but I've not looked). There is a half-moon leather sweatband and US-style label (these were contract items via the US government).

[Collectinsteve]

Ah, a tough one! Never having seen one for sale means there's not much quantitive info to draw from.

The problem with valuing something this obscure, and incomplete, is that most people don't give a rat's posterior about it. And I'm talking about collectors who have a strong focus on BRD stuff, not the larger collector's circle. Someone like me, for example, wouldn't buy something like your hat at all. Not even for 50 cents because what are the chances I'll find a complete uniform to match the hat? So to me the value is almost zero. Someone who focuses on hats might value it higher, but IMHO it wouldn't be that much. 5-10 EUR tops is my estimate.

The person that would pay the most is someone who has a LSU uniform and has been looking for a hat just like this for years. That person might pay big money for it (35-75 EUR). That's the upside of having something relatively rare. But it might take you years to find such a buyer. eBay is, unfortunately, likely to result in a low priced sale because you need to find TWO people who want it badly for the price to go more than a few EUR. My guess is that is unlikely.

If you're looking to sell it, my advice is to put it on German eBay, complete with very well written description (in German), at a starting the price off at what you value it at. If you put it on for 1 EUR it is quite likely that's all you'll get for it, if even that.

That's my thought, for what it's worth

Steve

[SprogCollector]

Certainly from a uniform collector standpoint, I would agree with you. To have a cap without the rest of the uniform would be pointless.

From a cap collector standpoint, I would disagree with you. In this world, the cap is the focal point. I know a few guys who collect caps exclusively (myself included although I do have a few jackets).

At issue here is the LSU. I've never seen an LSU uniform for sale (never looked for one either). Prior to obtaining the cap, I didn't even know there was an LSU! Clearly a very niche area -- probably akin to collecting uniforms from the Mine Clearing organizations of the very early postwar years.

As reference, the cap was acquired at auction at over E$100 and was hotly contested. Stupid me, I was bidding on what I thought was an early BW cap! I'm presuming at least some of the 11 bidders were aware of what it really was!

Here's an LSU uniform, in case anyone was curious

[Guardian 5]

SprogCollector - I'm at a complete loss as to estimating the value of your lid.

Perhaps you could group it with another spare item you're seeking to sell (perhaps one less obscure) in order to recapture your investment money.

I had the LSU patch pictured below for many years without being able to identify it. The WAF was finally able to help me "crack the code" a few years back.

Good luck - TJ

[Guardian 5]

This patch, also attributed to the LSU, came up for auction at Manion's some time ago.

All the best - TJ

[SprogCollector]

Thanks for your input guys. The great thing about these caps is they take up very little space. Absolute worst case is that a pretty rare cap continues residing in my display cabinet!

I was more interested in opinions here at the BRD forum. I've had occassional offers on the cap over the years. I just never had a feel for whether they were reasonable or not? I suspect what I paid was probably a reasonable price and equally suspect I'll move it on at a similar price.

TJ: WAF is a great resource. It's actually where I found out about LSU and was then able to find a few websites devoted to the subject. LSU is pretty neat but the quasi-military stuff is out of my area of interest. Probably a very cool cap for an M-43 collector. They share many traits with the WW2-era Bergmütze.

[Collectinsteve]

SprogCollector,

100 Euros? Wow! I guess it is both rare AND valued, which isn't always the case (I have plenty of rare items apparently nobody cares about but me ). And you are very much correct, hat, beret, badge, etc. collectors often pay sums of money uniform collectors would never dream of paying. I said the same thing, but made the error of assuming too few guys out there know what an LSU hat is. Obviously there are enough to get the price up that high! You are probably correct that you can move it along to someone for around that amount.

The problem with eBay is that you need to see a lot of auctions for a particular item before you can arrive at an average price. I've seen two people get into a bidding war on something that just the week before nobody bid on for a lower amount. Sometimes it is because someone got a big paycheck that day, sometimes it's because a bidder thought he was bidding on something different. Sometimes it's simply because two people both want to "win" for the sake of winning. There are all kinds of reasons that given enough auctions tend to even out.

And like you, I never knew the LSU existed, not to mention they were armed! Good info to have.

As an aside, from my experience on eBay an early BW M43 hat is worth roughly EUR 35 to EUR 50. I have a couple and I didn't pay that much. Recently there was a really nice enlisted LW hat that sold for a reasonable price. A Sandfarbe Schirmütze, on the other hand, goes for big bucks. Last solo one I saw sold for EUR 156,55. Two weeks ago one sold with a very nice NCO jacket, shirt, and trousers for EUR 300 (the uniform is worth probably EUR 200 on its own). So yeah, BRD hats can certainly go for good money. Just see what a Polizei Tschako sells for

Steve

[SprogCollector]

Hi Steve,
I would agree wholeheartedly. I've had similar experiences with BW M-56 caps (M-43) and have paid similar prices although I did go higher on several. The Luftwaffe caps, particularly the officer M-56, don't seem to come up for sale as often as the Heer caps. I also tend to go for items without the big "A" stamp on the labels. Not sure what the German word is but it's meant to denote items being sold as surplus.

There seem to be more early BW items up for sale now than even a year ago. Clearly interest in the early BW is higher now and driving more old uniforms out of storage closets!

[Collectinsteve]

Yup, the amount of early BRD stuff on eBay these days is vastly larger and broader than I've ever seen it. Probably a combo of a bad economy and "Dachbodenfunden" as Grandpas are shuffled off to retirement homes or the next life. Someone who served in the BW in the 1950s as an 18 year old recruit is about 80 or so years old. I have no doubt that is where some of the the non "A" stamped items are liking coming from.

As with everything, bad economies produce opportunities for those who can afford them

Steve

[uscob]

The "A" means ausgemustert, so sorted out. It's just to mark stuff for surplus just to make sure that Soldiers won't buy used stuff cheap and turn them in to get new ones.
If you're looking for an Air Force "Bergmütze", I have some. Maybe we can trade for the LSU for McNair Museum.
Nico

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

The price of an item is always of interest. In this case, I hope that the LSU cap ends up in the McNair Museum. It would fit right in with the other rare items that Nico has gathered together there.

Regards,

Gordon

[uscob]

Must add, that my LW Caps are new from the Box without any A's. I have Officers and EM's.