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    #1

    1950s Hessen rank?

    Does anybody have a source of information for 1950s Hessen Polizei rank? I have a 1956 uniform that is without rank and apparently arm badge, but I don't know what to be looking for since the type I'm familiar with is the later type worn on the arm.

    Thanks!

    Steve
    Tags: None
    #2
    Hi Steve,

    try it here:

    http://www.polizeieffekte.de/html/hessen1.html

    and/or here:

    http://www.rangabzeichen.verbandsabzeichen.info/13.html

    Uwe

    Comment

      #3
      Thanks Uwe,

      That was very helpful, but not the way I hoped The information shows that even in the 1950s rank was worn on the lower sleeve, not on the shoulders. This means the uniform I have is *not* Hessen.

      Can anybody tell me what this uniform is? It was made in Hannover in 1956. The arm of the overcoat (Mantel) had a standard shield type badge on it, but I can't see any signs of badging on the jacket. The trousers have light green piping on them, as does the matching hat. I know it isn't S-H or Hessen. Maybe Breman?

      Steve



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        #4
        Most likely it is from Niedersachsen. They wore shoulder ranks that would conform to that. The shoulder patch was a standard shield shape. Can you photograph the area where the patch was ?

        Also, are they more greenish or bluish ?

        Comment

          #5
          Thanks for the follow up. I was not aware that Niedersachsen wore green uniforms before moving to dark blue/gray.

          It's more greenish than bluish, especially when put next to a BGS uniform. I will see about getting a shot later tonight, however it looks like the typical size/shape that went on to be standard after 1976.

          Steve

          Comment

            #6
            Steve

            No, if it were Niedersachsen it should be more bluish........

            Unless I am having a "senior" moment, the only ones who wore the traditional "shield" shape at that time period would have been Niedersachsen or Hamburg.

            Comment

              #7
              I just double checked and the Mantel is dated 1964. The jacket, trousers, Mantel, and hat (M43 style) came to me from one seller. The color of the wool matches, but other than that and the source I can't be 100% sure they are related.

              Steve

              Comment

                #8
                The fact that there was a patch sewn on the uniform kinda limits who would have worn it.

                Unfortunately, it's been well over a decade since I disposed of my German uniform & hat collection. So I am going only on "memory" and based on my patch & rank insignia collection.

                We just don't have all that many choices, so you would think this would be easy..........

                Comment

                  #9
                  HAHA!! Yes, I keep thinking the same thing!!

                  All I can think of is that some Polizei force wore this uniform very early in its history and then moved to something completely different. The color, unfortunately, isn't like anything else I have in my collection.

                  So, the problems with identification are:

                  1. Jacket used button on rank.
                  2. Mantel had a large shield type badge AND is the same color as the Jacket.

                  I have a lot of early S-H items and they are not colored the same. The S-H items are bluer, I think. Plus my S-H Polizei friend swears they never used button on shoulder rank. He is also a collector so I think he is correct (my 1960s items are all sewn in).

                  Bremen is my best guess. They did wear shoulder rank and used a green uniform. My 1960s Breman uniform is similar color. However, that doesn't explain the shield badge on the Mantel!

                  Steve

                  Comment

                    #10
                    My thought was Bremen Bepo as well. Which could very well be and the Mantel was from someplace else. I wish I had access to my SH rank, but they are still packed away after our move. I know a lot of them are sewn in, but can't remember if the lower ones were as well. Damn my failing memory........ I was doing fine till I hit 45 !!!

                    The thing that I find interesting is that the mantel had a patch on it. I had several in my old collection and I can't remember one having a patch. Obviously whoever had it was a "Buff"

                    Comment

                      #11
                      OK, Breman BePo is the leading contender

                      As far as I know all S-H ranks were sewn in. I have some pretty junior ones and they are sewn and not buttoned.

                      I have entertained the idea that someone incorrectly added the arm badge to the Mantel and then it was removed after the error was discovered. However, there is an indentation which indicates, to me, that the arm badge was on there for a very long time. Since there is a paper control tag on the sleeve it's likely that this was in long term storage, which doesn't leave a lot of time for someone to add a badge and have the wool deform to its shape.

                      I haven't seen many Mantels with arm badges on them, besides BGS that is. There is no rank at all, yet it looks like it was lightly used before it went back into storage.

                      So many mysteries over what should be a simple uniform to identify!

                      Steve

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Gentlemen,

                        Is it possible these items were worn by a city police force rather than a state police force?

                        Regards,

                        Gordon

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Hi Gordon, (welcome back!)

                          I think the primary problem we face is a lack of clear and comprehensive documentation of BRD law enforcement uniforms from the immediate post-war era. Without that I'd say "anything is possible" simply because we don't know what we don't know, as the saying goes.

                          What bothers me is that the number of states and cities large enough to boast independent police forces is rather small. So why don't we know what it is? Even with incomplete information I would think identification would not be too hard. Yet apparently it is!

                          Steve

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Steve,

                            This why I don't buy tunics without insignia. For years we have used the term "Polizei Grun" but in effect, during the post war years, there is no such colour. Every state and city with their own police force used a different shade of green varying from true green to a blue green more blue than green. Include the possible change of colour of the material over the last 50 years and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to assign an unbadged tunic to a specific force. Throw in the different shades of green produced by cameras and pc screens and we have a Chinese puzzle. I wish you luck in your quest.

                            Regards,

                            Gordon

                            Comment

                              #15
                              So true Gordon, so true. At least I paid almost nothing for the tunic, trousers, hat, and Mantel. IIRC it was under EUR 20 for the whole set. Shipping, on the other hand, was not insignificant

                              Steve

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