Summer Uniforms in the Bundeswehr (Sandfarben)

[Asbjoern]

Jepp, screwd buttons ... before I learned this I once tried to bend my fingers in a way to get the damned button fixed by a ring in this pocket-type device ...
The ringed button is only used on the last version of the navy jacket ... most interesting I´ve one jacket with a transitional construction ... it has only two loops as the newer jackets so you can use the ringed button, but the inner loop also has a hole (secured by stitched around thread) to use the screwed buttons also ...

To find such a trouser will need some luck... the one pictured came with my type 1b jacket. I´ve a second one coming from my hoard, burried in a box with two dozen of type 2 trousers. Only bad thing on this leggins is their formar use as working suit. It shows no extensive wear but some ugly blotches of paint ... Maybe I can remoce them - at least partially - by using aceton ...

Regards,

Jens

[PASSAUER8884]

I was looking back through this thread, it looks like the sandfarben uniforms were approved in the spring of 1959. Yet the tag on Jens example looks like a
8-9 58 date, could these be a prototype? I have seen couple of these jackets with the exact same tag. Could explain the differences in material between early type 1s and later type 1s

[Gordon Craig]

PASSAUER8884,

We are not sure that the 8-9 58 markings indicate a date. That is our guess at this time. We do know that this type of maker tag was used very early on in the BW. The date of the order introducing Sandfarben uniforms was 8 April, 1959. They were probably made and worn before that for troop trials but I have never seen a Sandfarben tunic marked as a Truppensuch. For now we will just have to accept that Sandfarben tunics with this particular label appear to be the first ones issued.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

To round out this thread, it is time to post some shirts, ties and the overseas cap. First up, the overseas cap.

[Gordon Craig]

A closer view of the cockade and the label in this cap.

[Gordon Craig]

The long sleeved shirt and the tie worn by the Luftwaffe and the Heer. The "tunnel" that the tongue of the shoulder boards fit through are identical on the long sleeve and the short sleeve shirt. As pictured below.

[Gordon Craig]

The short sleeve shirt as worn by the Luftwaffe and the Heer. These shirts have an extra length of the stiff collar material extending down the inside of the front. This allows the top button of the shirt to worn open. The front of the shirt can be ironed down and stays flat because of this extra piece of material.

[Gordon Craig]

The short sleeved shirt as worn in the Marine. The buttons are held on by split rings. The shank of the button only allows you to place the button with the top of the anchor facing to the wearers back or to the front. The correct placement of the button is shown here. The top of the anchor is facing the back.

[Gordon Craig]

There were some comments earlier about one specific Marine tunic that used screw on buttons to hold the shoulder boards at the collar end. Just in case anyone is in doubt about what a screw on button is here are a couple of pictures of one.

[Gordon Craig]

I forgot to mention the Marine shorts.

[Simon87]

My part to this interesting thread:




regards,
Simon

[PASSAUER8884]

Nice.....1958 production looks like.

[Gordon Craig]

Simon87,

Thanks for posting pictures of your cap. It brings up a question that I have been unable to answer. My cap has the cockade on a Sandfarben background. Your has it on a hellgrau background. Schuster pictures both in his book but other than mention the difference in the cockade background colour he makes no other comments. Kunstwadl is o help because he pictures only an officers schiffchen and it has an enlisted mman's cockade.
The questions are;
1- does the different background colour make any difference?
2-were the different background colours issued to different services IE Luftwffe and Heer?
3-was it a time thing IE very early caps with cockades on a grey background and later ones on a Sandfarben background?

Anyone have any knowledge in this area?

Regards,

Gordon

[Asbjoern]

Gordon, that is a mystery for sure ! If the backing would be "marine" it would be easy, but why the difference in gray and khaki ? Most possible this is no true mystery - only a small individual difference between lots produced by different manufacturers over the years...

Jens

[Collectinsteve]

My first guess, and it is only a guess, is that they started production of the caps without special tan colored cockade. I have seen this before with other countries. Soldiers are instructed to wear old badging until new badging becomes available.

Another possibility is they didn't think a special cockade was necessary, but after seeing the hats used in real service changed their minds.

Unfortunately, with such a small sample of hats (I have one, I think 1961 with tan cockade?) and the passage of time, I am not sure we will ever have a definite answer.

Steve