Now to continue with current uniforms. Markus posted these pictures in the Bundeswehr Lovers thread.
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The back of this tunic.Comment
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The makers label.Comment
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Another photo from Kunstwadl's book showing the current sandfarben in wear on shipboard.Comment
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Extract from ZDv 37/10 showing sandfarben in wear by all three services.Comment
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In shirt sleeves.Comment
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Hi GordonOriginally posted by Gordon Craig View Post
Thanks for your reply .
I will try if I can find the book on the net , who knows ?
Regards ,
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Yikes! I guess the Navy is the only branch hip enough to pull off the tan shorts with black socks/shoes look!Comment
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Ah if I had the funds I would have snagged it from you Gordon, I was watching it to see it to the end , but once I figured my Ebay funds were depleted I let it slip thru my fingers. But Glad you got it.Originally posted by Gordon Craig View Post
JoeComment
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Gordon, did you ever come to a conclusion on the correctness of the boards?. I have a similar uniform myself..
DanComment
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Dan,
I have come to the conclusion that these are not the correct boards for this uniform. Actually, I had come to that conclusion some time ago but these uniforms still need a lot of research.
Schuster's recent book "Das Ausstattungssoll der Heeresangehorigen der Bundeswehr von 1955 bis 2010" helped me some but not a lot. He has divided the Sandfarben uniforms into Type 1 and Type 2. I knew previously that there were two different uniforms referred to as "sandfarben" but I hadn't thought much about it. Now I think I can do something here.
Type 1 uniforms - have cuffs, use the pointed shoulder boards and for the Luftwaffe and Heer should have altgold buttons. For the navy they will have gold anchor buttons for that period. It is possible that post 1962 these uniforms wore the rounded end shoulder boards introduced at the end of 1962 and the alt silver butttons intruced at about the same time for mannschaften and unteroffizier;
Type 2 uniforms - did not have cuffs, can be found with altsilber or neusilber buttons, would have post 1962 shoulder boards of their branch of service. The Marine would still have worn gold anchor buttons but probably of a brighter shade of gold.
The uniform you have enquired about is a Type 1 and was made in 1958. I feel that it is unlikely that this tunic would have been upgraded to the configuration shown in the photo for wear in the BW but that is always possible. If it had been, it would have needed collar tabs for the Heer.
Other things come into play when dealing with sandfarben tunics. You have to take into consideration when collar tabs first started to be worn, when the national flag started to be worn etc. Those things have been discussed in other threads on the forum but I don't want to go into that now. The main thing remaining to be established is "When did the sandfarben tuncc start being produced in the Type 2 configuration?".
Thanks for bringing this thread back up again. It was time I started looking at my Sandfarben uniforms again.
Regards,
GordonComment
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Interesting thread, which I missed the first time around.
Gordon, I believe there are three versions:
Type 1 - as you described (double cuffs)
Type 2 - similar to Type 1, but worn with rounded shoulder boards
Type 3 - as you described (no double cuffs)
This would make sense considering double cuffs were standard for normal BW tunics until 1970. To me it would be quite odd for the double cuffs to be absent from only the Sandfarbe jacket from 1963-1969.
What evidence do I have of the above? Not much
I have clearly marked 1961, 1962, and 1985 jackets and one that has a questionable date on it.
The 19661 and 1962 jackets are both made by the same company, are identically tailored and tagged with a secondary wash/care tag. These are clearly Type 1.
The unknown date jacket, which is what I think is Type 2, has a slightly different color, slightly different feel, and subtle tailoring differences. It *might* be 1967, I can't say for sure. There is no secondary wash/care tag.
The 1985 jacket appears to be the same color and cloth as the unknown jacket, is made by the same company (Uniform Blitz), and is constructed very differently on the inside (as well as not having double cuffs, of course). This is what I think might be the third type.
I'm also now wondering if this jacket I have is one of the early experimental types:
It is in almost the same cut and cloth as Type 1 Sandfarbe, but it has different (and rather foolish, IMHO) attachment method for the rank epaulettes. Unfortunately it has no label at all. Clearly it is prior to 1963, however.
SteveComment
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Steve, your grey jacket is clearly a private purchased summer jacket, maybe bought from KKB. There are different mathods of ataching the shoulderboards: The removable with e spring construction (if I remember your jacket has them) and a type with fixed, sewn in boards.... the two lables are in all type of light coloured summer tunics (including thewhite Heer ones) as these would be washed more often.... therefore the removable buttons on some of them ...
The sand coloured tunics were manufactured at least in one more version ... the one made from 1958 on for Heer and Luftwaffe has loose doubled cuffs while the Marine ones have only fake double cuffs ... during the 60ies the stile changed only in minor details ... I´ve a mid 60ies made jacket which is more or less the same as the early ones ... The change to the simple cuffs was - as stated - in 1970 for all branches ...the jackets for the marine are still different as they are made from thicker cloth as these were ment as a kind of working suit ... the summer dress for the navy is the white one! According to some navy guys the jacket wasn´t issued since years so you don`t find navy jackets of newer date very often ... all those navy jackets have removable buttons while Heer and LW have sewn on ones ....
The national flagg can be found on some jackets which is unusual for a dress uniform ...
The shoulderboards should be pointed and and sandcoloured up to 1962 ...the, for a very short periode, rounded and sand coloured (there are at least three different types of rounded EM boards ...) , and after 1963 they used the normal grey boards for shirts and coats...
Espacially of the later type you`ll find mostely LW tunics as the Heer was not often present in placec were the sand coloured stuff could be worn ...
Regards,
JensComment
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Steve,
I think we are getting into too many minor variations here. I wouldn't consider the tunics worn with round shoulder boards a separate type. The shoulder board shape was changed in late 1962 for all tunics It was still in sandfarben colour for the sandfarben tunics at that time, as Jens has said. Eventually normal issue boards were worn with the sandfarben tunic.
I agree with Jens on your dark grey tunic. Schuster covers these tunics in his book.
Jens,
I'd like to see pictures of the sandfarben marine tunic with false cuffs. This was common on all tunics for a short period after they discontinued the real cuff. I have never seen this on a sandfarben tunic but this would seem logical. My understanding is that all Type 1 tunic buttons were held on by split rings and not just the Marine. All Type 1 tunics had removable altgold buttons.
Regards,
GordonComment
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I found this jacket on ebay last week ($24.00!) and was lucky to be the only bidder and won it. It just arrived today. Im guessing its the so called type 1? Its dated 3/62 has the pointed shoulder boards gold buttons secondary care tag and double cuffs. Except for the "A" stamp on the care tag its in brand new shape. I guess you can still find neat stuff on ebay now and then in the US.
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