Ok folks I've got this Police Shako and matching peak cap, I'd like to put together a uniform to go with it. Exactly what would I be looking to hunt for?
Thanks
Joe
Thanks
Joe
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That enlisted Polizei tschako for Nordrhein-Westfalen. I think they used them until late 1960s or so. I have later example tunic for early 1970s that I recently sold but they changed uniform in 1970, and not sure if they used tschako with it or not. The post-1976 green uniform is of course incorrect.
regards
Klaus
Asbjoern posted an example of NRW Polizei uniform (Post #227) in BGS thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...252712&page=16
And uniform in use with cap (courtesy of Guardian5):
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MaxxBrunn1938,
First question is 1-What date is in the cap? If it predates 1960 at would probably work. If it is from the 70s or later it would probably not go with the uniform that was worn with the schako. Please post some pictures of the cap so we can help in this area. Early uniforms were probably blue before almost everyone changed to green but I don't know for sure.
2-What markings are in the schako? These may be of more than passing interest.
For a good answer we probably need Huntsman or SCHUPO to take part.
You have posed an excellent question and I to would like to know the answer.
Regards,
GordonComment
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Gordon:
To my knowledge NRW Polizei never used blue uniforms. That was only some Bundesländer (Westberlin, Niedersachsen and possibly Bremen). The NRW tunic above was used at least as early as 1950s. Before that was denazified TR uniforms before 1949.
regards
KlausComment
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Well Gordo the only markings in the Schako are the size and the wearers name as for the cap it looks like 1975.Originally posted by gordon.criag View PostComment
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Cap markingsComment
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Klaus1989,
Interesting info re the green tunics. Seems a long time to wear the same style tunic! Be nice to see a picture of one these schakos in wear for this state. Did the rank insignia stay the same through the 50s, 60s and 70s? If it did then one uniform would do it for MaxxBrunn1938. If there were diffierent rank insignia in the 50s and the 70s that would indicate two uniforms for the two pieces of head gear.
MaxxBrunn1938,
Thanks for the pictures of the visor cap. As usual, we are all learning something here.
Regards,
GordonComment
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The tschako appears to be out of use with NRW Polizei by late 1960s. Unfortunatley I could not find any photos of NRW tschako in use when it was issued. Of all photos with NRW Polizisten I found from massive 1968 protests in Köln and Bonn, all wear Schirmmütze. The style of Schirmmütze appears unchanged from 1950s-1976, even though uniform changed in 1970 (grey-green colour did not though). Rank insignia appears similar before 1976 but structure could have changed - I only have chart for 1970-1976 ranks.
So it is more change to uniform than rank structure. Although same style cap was used, for date he would need later style "blazer" tunic and for tschako the earlier 4-pocket tunic picture above.
regards
Klaus
Maxbrunn's 1975-dated Schirmmütze would be used with the later style tunic (except tunic is officer rank and cap is for EM ranks), dated 1974:
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Here is current ebay auction for earlier enlisted NRW Polizei uniform without insignia. The man does not know what it is and claims that it is "rare West German Army uniform" though. The date tag is strange because it is marked 78 and 75. It does not make sense to keep producing this uniform for 5 years after new introduced and by 1978, universal green uniform was in use. The maker is in Hückelhoven, a town in NRW.
http://cgi.ebay.com/WEST-GERMAN-ARMY...3A1%7C294%3A50
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Klaus,
Thanks for your comments. Useful stuff. It will no doubt help Maxbrun and it will help me for sure.
More questions-early four pocket tunic would have pointed shoulder boards?
Cheers,
GordonComment
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This is interesting and I think I've opened a can of worms on this Thread.. Well leave it for me to Always have a mystery
Between West and East German items that I'm starting to get into and running into walls, I'm ready to go back to TR 
But hey whoever said collecting was easy?
I really do thank you guys for the help and hope we can get me on the right path.
JoeComment
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Yes both models used pointed shoulderboards. No trim = EM/NCO, silver trim = officers. Ebay tunic above actually not missing insignia if for rank of Anwärter.Originally posted by gordon.criag View Post
A couple other photos I referenced earlier, both during the 1968 Sternmarsch in Bonn. Interesting to note is no NRW sleeve patch until adoption of the blazer style uniform in 1970. "Einsatzleiter Tonis Hunold" (appears to be rank of Polizeioberrat):
Source: Bundesarchiv Bonn
Polizei with protective barricades in Bonn. Front man appears to wear boots and different uniform:
Source: Deutsche Presse AgenturLast edited by Klaus1989; 03-16-2009, 03:01 PM.Comment
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Joe,Originally posted by MaxxBrunn1938 View Post This is interesting and I think I've opened a can of worms on this Thread.. Well leave it for me to Always have a mystery Between West and East German items that I'm starting to get into and running into walls, I'm ready to go back to TR
But hey whoever said collecting was easy?
I really do thank you guys for the help and hope we can get me on the right path.
Joe
We've come a long way down the line to identify tunics you would need for the schako and the visor cap. Very important for those of us interested in West German uniforms, police or otherwise, to document what each of us knows. There are no books on West German police. Except for one on the BGS which was written to commemorate 50 years of the BGS and therefore not really aimed at collectors. There are a couple on the Bundeswehr and we should consider ourselves lucky we have those. So far I know enough to ask sensible questions. Now I have to learn to understand the answers.
Please don't stop asking questions. It would be a much more boring forum without them
Regards,
GodonComment
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