Won this early BW cap a week of so ago. Haven't received it yet but seems a nice example of an early 1960s Gebirgs officer cap although I believe at this time the entire Heer was wearing this style of Dienstmuetzen.
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Sprogcollector,
Nice looking cap. With the sweat shield logo in such good condition it appears unworn.
Regards,
Gordon -
Very nice hat indeed; like the white officer trim.
Aside from the edelweiss badge, I'm not sure if the BW gebirgsmutze was different from the standard issue hat.
I'll see what I can find out.
G5Comment
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SC - Joerg Hormann uses this illustration of an officer's dienstmutze in his work, Uniforms of the Infantry 1919 - Present.
Your hat seems to be made of a higher grade material, and the flaps actually fold down, leading me to believe that perhaps it was made just for mountain troops.
My enlisted man's mountain cap is of a later vintage and made of a gabradine blend. The flaps also fold down. Unfortunately, the liner was ripped out and I'm unable to date it.
Take care - G5Comment
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SC - In this picture, BW Oberleutnant Fluhr poses outside of the Press Coalition Information Center at Tito Barracks, BiH, in April, 2002.
Note that he wears his bergmutze with officer piping instead of the standard field cap.
G5Comment
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Guys,
Thanks for both of your replies to this thread! I still haven't received the cap (enroute from Europe) but will certainly post better pics once I receive it.
I don't have enough knowledge to comment on whether or not the BW Gebirgsjager just added the Edelweiss to the (then) standard dienstmutze. I suspect that's probably the case though.
G5: the cap photo you posted is quite interesting. Offhand, I'm wondering if it's possibly the officer version of the moleskin M-43 style cap worn in the 1980s? I've also seen Polizei caps that look very similar to what's shown. 1987 Enlisted Gebirgsjaeger version here:
I've also seen a very light grey (hellgrau??) M-43 style cap in use by the modern BW.
Last edited by SprogCollector; 12-28-2007, 09:40 AM.Comment
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SC - In your last photo, Herr Bentler is wearing his dress bergmutze with his fatigue uniform, an affectation peculiar to the Bundeswehr's elite Mountain Troops.
As we saw with the picture I posted of Oberleutnant Fluhr, this was a common practice of mountain troops deployed to Bosnia and I myself witnessed it first hand in Kosovo.
The attached photo from NATO Uniforms Today by Digby Smith shows the dress bergmutze being worn with the dress uniform unique to the mountain troops.
G5Comment
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BW mountain troops also wore the moleskin M-43 in the field, but seldom bothered with putting an edelweiss badge on it - impractical.
This photo is from Federal Republic of Germany Questions and Answers edited by Susan Steiner.Comment
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Gentlemen,
I am away from my reference material at the moment but I believe that the Mountain Troops just wore the standard BW cap with an eidelweiss added. The WWII Bergmutze could be distinguished from the later M43 caps because it had a shorter peak. There does not seem to be any difference in the caps of this style worn in the BW.
The picture of the light grey Bergmutze is of the cap worn by Generals in the Mountain Troops. You can see the gold piping around the crown of the cap in the foto. This cap may also be a standard item for BW Generals but I don't know for sure. I have a Mountain Troops generals cap, in the light grey colour, as shown in the photo.
Regards,
GordonComment
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Gordon,
Thanks for your comments. I would agree that the original postwar Dienstmutze (M-43) was of a single style and intended for all Heer members. Only the addition of the Edelweiss distinguishes the Gebirgstruppen from other members of the Army. I'm pretty sure the M-43 style cap was done away with in the 1960s and replaced by the sidecap for everyone except the Gebirgstruppen. I believe this is still the case today.
So, the General officer shown is wearing a light grey cap, correct? I was aware the cap colours changed from dark grey to light grey at some point (1970s/80s?) but wasn't sure how light a shade they went to.
As to G5s comments, I would also agree that I've not really seen an Edelweiss on either the green moleskin field cap or the newer flecktarn cap.
G5: This is the style of Polizei cap I was referring to with regards to the officer cap you posted earlier.
Last edited by SprogCollector; 12-29-2007, 01:56 PM.Comment
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Gents - I thought that the BW bergmutze was different from the standard BW dress hat in that it retained some functionality, i.e. the flaps actually folded down.
Going by Hormann's example and the officer hat shown directly above, we see that the buttons are merely ornamental; there is no functionality.
As we can see on the attached picture however, (from Das Deutsche Heer by Juergen Schroeder), this 50's era soldier was issued with a hat that folded down, even though it would appear that he is in a non-mountain unit.
Thus it seems as though BW Gebirgsjaegers merely sewed their edelweis badges to their dress hat (which came in "flap" and "no-flap" versions & is no longer provided to other branches) and wear them with their flecktarn uniform in garrison.
An interesting aside; in the current edition of the Soldier's Handbook (Die Reibert), the edelweis badge is authorized for wear on the beret.
Thanks for keeping it interesting......Comment
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Here's my BW mountain cap, a far cry from the high end model recently acquired by SprogCollector.
Horrido!Comment
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Hi G5,
I think your cap looks very cool -- especially the dark backed Edelweiss! Very much in keeping with the practice of WW2-era Gebirgsmutzen!
My cap is hardly 'high-end'. It's an off-the-shelf, issue item -- albeit for an officer. My 1960 enlisted Luftwaffe M-43 is made to the same standard and, aside from the officer braid on the Army cap, is identical in quality.
One needs to take a step back and realize we're comparing early 1960s products to those made recently (not sure the age of your cap). It's similar to comparing an early WW2-era cap to a 1960s cap. The earlier items tend to be better made and use superior materials.
To get back on topic:
You are correct regarding the early Dienstmutze. All of them had fold-down ear flaps -- much like the WW2 M-43 caps. I lost most of my BW data in a harddrive crash but am pretty sure the Dienstmutze was eliminated in the mid 1960s and was replaced by the Schiffchen (sidecap) for all branches except the Gebirgstruppen. The Luftwaffe version went away around the same time.
In the 1960s, the only difference between enlisted and officer caps was the cap braid. In looking at your cap compared to a modern officer cap, there are some visible differences. The officer cap doesn't have the grommet/vent. Photographically, the officer cap also appears to be made using a different fabric. Since the two caps aren't sitting side-by-side, this might just be a matter of lighting differences between the two caps?
I did receive my cap in the mail today and will try and post some photos this weekend. It appears little used. The Edelweiss is attached with prongs -- not sewn on.Last edited by SprogCollector; 12-28-2007, 09:45 PM.Comment
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Gents,
Lots of interesting pictures and comments. The light coloured cap shown in wear by the General is not as light a grey as the photograph would indicate. It has sort of a blue cast and is lighter probably because of the flash used to take the photo. The Mountain Troop Generals light coloured cap that I have is made of a high quality material of a totally diferent type than used in other BW Mountain caps that I have seen. Looking forward to seeing close ups of Sprogcollectors cap soon. I won't be leaving Canada until tomorrow night and don't arrive back in Budapest until Sunday morning. I'll look on my hat CD once I get home and see what I have in the way of pictures if these caps.
Regards,
GordonComment
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Sorry to interrupt, I have seen a BW oliver green mountain cap in a store, when I return to buy few days later, it was being bought!!!!!!
I wonder if u guys had any pic of this particular cap??
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