BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Marksharky]

BGS Compass & Manual

For a little change of pace, Here is a piece of BGS equipment that I just picked up. I am hoping that some of the other collectors out there can chime in with some good information on these ............

This is a BGS Bezard type marching compass, made by Lufft. The compass is complete with the original neck cord and leather carrying case. I does, however, seem to be missing the 10 cm metal rule that could be connected to slotted holders that are connected to the case hinge.

Here is a great link to the "Compass Museum" online, that has an excellent section on how these compasses were used.........
http://www.compassmuseum.com/hand/bezard.htm

I am wondering if anyone knows when this style of compass was issued and used by the BGS......... no date on the case. Was it issued out to everyone or was it only checked out when one was in the field? I am guessing that it was in use for the entire time the BGS existed since it is nearly identical to the old WW2 model (different cord mounting D-ring)

Before I post the photos of this compass of mine, here is the link to my online photo page with the compass album. Thee are more photos in the album than I have posted here.
http://sports.webshots.com/album/582...N?vhost=sports

Here are a few photos:

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[Marksharky]

BGS Compass & Manual

A friend of mine in Berlin, sent me a set of classroom handouts from his time in the BGS back in the 1990's. They were from one of his training classes in the BGS. These go nicely with the BGS compass.

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[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

From the past comments on this forum, the general feeling was that the guy on the left, as viewed by you, was an American soldier. That raises the question as to why he would have been carrying an FN rifle and a German style gas mask. What we can tell from this particular picture was that both guys are wearing different uniforms. Without a caption from the original photo it would be difficult to draw any firm conclusions from it except that.
I am not familiar enough with U.S. military uniforms to say that the one on the left belongs to that particular army. I'll leave that discussion to those who are.

Regards,

Gordon

[michelwijnand]

More info can be found in the threads about early BW like about the early M1 helmet, I think looking for that would be the best, instead of filling up this thread with BW stuff instead of BGS.

I think more info may also be in the thread about splitter uniforms

[Gordon Craig]

Marksharky,

Thanks for posting these BGS compass pictures and the associated documentation. These have popped up on ebay.com recently and the vendor seems to have a few to auction off, complete with case. Although, the compass pictured in the auctions has certainly seen a lot more use than the one in your collection. I hope the someone on the forum can fill in the missing information on time of use etc.

Regards,

Gordon

For a little change of pace, Here is a piece of BGS equipment that I just picked up. I am hoping that some of the other collectors out there can chime in with some good information on these ............

This is a BGS Bezard type marching compass, made by Lufft. The compass is complete with the original neck cord and leather carrying case. I does, however, seem to be missing the 10 cm metal rule that could be connected to slotted holders that are connected to the case hinge.

Here is a great link to the "Compass Museum" online, that has an excellent section on how these compasses were used.........
http://www.compassmuseum.com/hand/bezard.htm

I am wondering if anyone knows when this style of compass was issued and used by the BGS......... no date on the case. Was it issued out to everyone or was it only checked out when one was in the field? I am guessing that it was in use for the entire time the BGS existed since it is nearly identical to the old WW2 model (different cord mounting D-ring)

Before I post the photos of this compass of mine, here is the link to my online photo page with the compass album. Thee are more photos in the album than I have posted here.
http://sports.webshots.com/album/582...N?vhost=sports

Here are a few photos:

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Redleg]

Gentlemen,

From the past comments on this forum, the general feeling was that the guy on the left, as viewed by you, was an American soldier. That raises the question as to why he would have been carrying an FN rifle and a German style gas mask. What we can tell from this particular picture was that both guys are wearing different uniforms. Without a caption from the original photo it would be difficult to draw any firm conclusions from it except that.
I am not familiar enough with U.S. military uniforms to say that the one on the left belongs to that particular army. I'll leave that discussion to those who are.

Regards,

Gordon

Thge standard caption just stated German/US combined training operations. I believe both men in the photo are German BW as both are carring the G1 Model "c" gewehr and equipment. I first thought the man on the right was an American based on the PFC stripe and paratrooper type pants, but you can see in other photos of early BW & BGS troopers a few did wear a single chevron on the sleeve and I have never seen more than one chevron on the early American style or issued field uniforms. The chevron may not be a rank but maybe more like a V chevron of WWII which indicates prior war service or a corporal.
The trooper on the left wears a different type of field pants in the pocket area and perhaps German manufacture.
Both field jackets appear to me as M43 US issued which were employed both in WWII and Korea. I also was issued this field jacket intill 1965.


I have a friend who particated in joint operations with the BW during the 50s-60s and his personal photos do not show any American wearing German issued equipment or small arms.

[Gordon Craig]

Redleg,

The BW soldier on the right wears the rank stripe for an Unteroffizier in the first rank structure of the BW. This is correct for the time period of the uniforms he is wearing.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Thge standard caption just stated German/US combined training operations. I believe both men in the photo are German BW as both are carring the G1 Model "c" gewehr and equipment.

This is a pretty famous picture and we've discussed it at length in another thread on German Winter uniforms. I suggest looking at this thread and continuing the discussion there since this is a BGS thread:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=442537

Short of it is the soldier on the right is 100% BW equipped and is BW. The soldier on the left is American (and is named in the original caption) using some BW equipment for whatever reason.

I have a friend who particated in joint operations with the BW during the 50s-60s and his personal photos do not show any American wearing German issued equipment or small arms.

Besides the original caption stating the guy on the left is American, in the above noted thread there is a picture of US advisors wearing BW helmet covers. Somewhere we had a discussion about advisor practices in the early years of the BW and it makes perfect sense why sometimes Americans dressed in German kit for OPSEC reasons.

Steve

[uscob]

Want to show my Berets I got some day's ago.
For Special Vehicle Crewmen like in Armored Recon Vehicles, Water Cannons etc. It's a bit larger as the standard ones and also the lining is different. Not the the Beret Shape, just round to fit the Head like a BB Cap. Also only 2 Rivets on one side.

[Collectinsteve]

Very nice!! I have one of these (at least I think it is oversized), but it is missing the bullseye. Which is unfortunate because I have never seen a spare one for sale. BW types are easy to find.

Steve

[uscob]

I also got some with replacements.

[blake485]

BW foto

those are Austrian soldiers you can rell by the canteen

[michelwijnand]

You mean this picture?


That canteen is the German 1st BW type, same with the gasmask and the other visible gear, it screams early BW to me.
I have seen similar canteens in use with the Austrian Bundesheer though, but this is German

[Redleg]

The Austrians at that time were armed with this type StG58 FAL and not the G1.

[Collectinsteve]

Nico,

Is that embroidered directly onto the beret?

Guys,

This picture has been discussed at length on this Forum and is being discussed in another current thread:



The soldier on the right is Bundeswehr, the soldier on the left is a US Army "Cadet". Most of his equipment is American, but the rifle and equipment are BW. There is an original caption with this picture that states these facts and also names the two individuals. Therefore, there is no doubt

Michel is correct about the canteen. The BH used an identical canteen for a very short period of time.

Steve