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    #391
    Maybe somebody can help me with something Confusing.
    While searching for correct Info on Para Helmets, I found the M71 as Model of them, but what confuses me is, that I have one, made in 1965 with a Shell Size of 71cm. The Leather Lioning is missing so I can't say what Head Size it is.
    Another Source say's M1A1 LL for Luftlande, so I guess, this would be correct.
    Attached Files

    Comment

      #392
      Nico,

      Neither designation was used by the BW. These helmets were shipped as "HELM, STAHL-Luftlandetruppe". I prefer to used the BW term but other collectors prefer the M71 designation although I have no idea where this particular designation originated. Or where M1A1 LL comes from. Not much relation to the helmet itself. Much the same as collectors have assigned M35, M42 etc. to Wehrmacht helmets when they were simply referred to as Stahlmelm by the Wehrmacht.

      Regards,

      Gordon

      Comment

        #393
        Originally posted by Gordon Craig View Post
        I prefer to used the BW term but other collectors prefer the M71 designation although I have no idea where this particular designation originated.
        Regards, Gordon
        M71...........I believe refers to the Belgian version, German made, same shell, slightly different straps..............I use the BW term.
        Prost ! Steve.

        Comment

          #394
          Stahlhelm 1A1 is/was allegedly term for all Bw M1 copies (after the original), allegedly LL for Luftlandetruppe like Nico mention. So say some sources, but they are maybe wrong?

          The Bw M1-style FJ helmet was introduced around 1961, so one marked 1965 would be perfectly correct. But this not look like the typical leather Bw liner.

          Regards
          Klaus
          Last edited by Klaus1989; 05-01-2014, 04:39 PM.

          Comment

            #395
            Originally posted by Klaus1989 View Post
            Stahlhelm 1A1 is/was allegedly term for all Bw M1 copies (after the original), allegedly LL for Luftlandetruppe like Nico mention. So say some sources, but they are maybe wrong?

            The Bw M1-style FJ helmet was introduced around 1961, so one marked 1965 would be perfectly correct. But this not look like the typical leather Bw liner.

            Regards
            Klaus
            Klaus,
            the LEather Liner is missing, so what you see is the Support Frame for it.
            Somewhere I also must have some with the Leather, but have to seaqrch for them. I just asked to be as most correct as possible with my description, but I think it's a bit Tricky as the Bundeswehr allway's uses funny Terms for most of their Stuff.

            Comment

              #396
              Originally posted by Gran Sasso View Post
              Found that one at a fleamarket last weekend:
              What super nice looking helmet !!! Tom

              Comment

                #397
                Nico,

                Lots try this again. As I said before, there is no such BW designation as M71 or M1A1 Luftlande. These are both designations dreamed up by collectors and have no connection to reality.
                The BW only designed and adopted three steel helmets before they adopted the G helm.
                1-The Stahlhelm M1A1;
                2-The Stahlhelm (Bodentruppen) M1A1 modified;
                3-The Stahlhelm Luftlande;

                Shortly after the Stahlhelm Luftlande was adopted collectors started referring to it as the Model 61. This was probably because the Stahlhelm Luftlande was tested in early 1961 and 17,000 were ordered in December of 1961. At some later point in time, some collectors started to call the Luftlande the M71. Possibly someone made a typo and typed M71 instead of M61 or it got confused with the Belgian M71 para helmet which is almost identical to the BW Luftlande helmet. If you do a search on the internet for "M71 Helmet" you will find both the German and the Belgian helmet listed.
                If you want to list your helmet correctly, and not have it confused with a Belgian helmet I suggest that you call it the BW Stahlhelm Luftlande. This name can only refer to one specific helmet.
                When the BWB (Bundesampt fur Wehrtechnik und Beschaffung) send a TL (Technische Lieferunbbedingungen) to a manufacturer to make a product for the BW they give the product a name. This establishes the name under which the product is made and shipped. Here are pictures of the labels on the cartons of helmets, M1A1 Modified and Stahlhelm Luftlande) as they were shipped from the factory to the BW.

                Regards,

                Gordon
                Attached Files
                Last edited by Gordon Craig; 05-02-2014, 04:16 PM.

                Comment

                  #398
                  Now, before some people get more confused, here is a complete helmet. Nico has mentioned that the liner in his helmet is missing so what you see here is a wearable helmet.
                  The BW Luftlande helmet is from my collection. The Belgian M71 photos come from the net.
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by Gordon Craig; 05-02-2014, 04:16 PM.

                  Comment

                    #399
                    #2,
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                      #400
                      To finish this off, lets look at the Belgian M71 helmet.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                        #401
                        #3
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #402
                          Thanks to a tip from TJ, I could finally acquire a BGS helmet cover, which was advertised quite low price as WW2 reproduction. These were made by a tailor at unit level from the Splittertarn Zeltbahn hoods and so have no stamps, but all follow the same cut. The drawstring from hood recycled for helmet cover. Have the hood to the Zeltbahn also, posted somewhere on here.



                          Worn during 1955 maneuvers in Hannover area during crossing of the Leine. Interesting to observe: some wear helmet covers like above and others have the rubber band, also the rowers have removed their field equipment and Zeltbahnen, but no one else. (Press photo from my collection)



                          And another BGS helmet for my collection. M53 with vents, stamped LS64. I have heard conflicting opinions, if M53 made with vents earlier or later as without vents. Some M35 helmets had rivet holes welded closed for new liner, but others like mine, where made this way.



                          Still with older dull dark green paint inside. Missing chinstrap was replaceed by me with riveted one (Bepo?). Named to Seibert. Always like named pieces.



                          Regards
                          Klaus

                          Comment

                            #403
                            Klaus,

                            Thanks for showing the photos of your latest acquisition and the period photo.

                            Likewise on the lid which looks to be in mint condition even though it was worn.

                            I am aware of anecdotal evidence that the ventless model was produced first and caused somewhat of an uproar as it got very hot for the wearer in sunny conditions. I will review my notes and see if I can find the original source data.

                            In the meantime, I hope you enjoy your new acquisitions.

                            All the best,
                            TJ

                            P.S. - Here is another period photo of the helmet cover in use from Das Deustchen Heer by J. Schroeder. It looks like Monty himself dropping the round down the tube...
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #404
                              TJ,
                              the helmet above is actually very worn on outside and inside with scratches, dents and worn paint. Hard to see in the photos. Liner has sweat stains also. I think many were refurbished repeatedly by BGS in late 50s, 60s and 70s and often show several paint layers. The original liner would have lacked the vents in the forward area, attach to liner band with round rivets and have lower quality leather.

                              Regards
                              Klaus

                              Comment

                                #405
                                Is there already a definitive answer to the interesting question when the ventless models were used/produced?
                                I guess they were used alongside the vented ones till the end, but from what period on were the ventless ones in use?

                                Comment

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