Help needed to id RUR cap badges

[lnijherald]

Hi guys,
Two of my recent arrivals are cap badges from the Royal Ulster Rifles, one has the "quis separabit" scroll underneath and it is made of blackened brass. The other one is smaller (nco's ??) has a " royal ulster rifles" scroll in the middle and is also made of brass. Any idea what they are, age, value?
Sorry I tried to upload some pictures but it didn't work, I'll try again later.
I appreciate your help.
Regards, Luc

[DJT]

Luc,

Send the photos to me and I will post them on your behalf.

[lnijherald]

Will do, thanks Des!

Regards, Luc

[DJT]

here we go

[DJT]

and second

[leigh kitchen]

The black badge is the King Edward II version, supersceded by the white metal version which was sealed in 1913.
The St. Edwards Crown version was sealed 1954.
In 1922 Royal Irish Rifles were renamed Royal ulster Rifles.
I'm having a mental block re. the smaller badge - unofficial, NCO's, worn by one of the airborne battalions (7th Bn?) on a dark green circle is closest I can get at the moment - but it was worn in white metal, not brass..

[lnijherald]

Hi Leigh,

Thanks for your opinions, any idea of the value of the blackened one? It's the odd one out in my collection so I think I will sell it.
Could the brass one be an economy issue? I understand whitemetal badges at some point were made of brass to save on nickel? The 1st battalion was part of 6th AB div btw.
Regards, Luc

[leigh kitchen]

I recently bought a blackened one for £6, Id've thought £10 - £20 would be the norm.

The brass one will be a repro, WWI economy issues were in brass, WWII economy versiins were in plastic.

I still can't quite place the white metal version, I have reference to it but am not in a position to locate the books.
Perhaps it was NCos of 1st Bn who wore it circa WWII, I just can't remember, some of the more airborne / special forces types on th forum should know it.

[lnijherald]

The brass one will be a repro

Are you sure Leigh? I mean, I'd expect to find a repro in whitemetal not brass.
Oh well, it was just a fiver.
Regards, Luc

[leigh kitchen]

Are you sure Leigh? I mean, I'd expect to find a repro in whitemetal not brass.
Oh well, it was just a fiver.
Regards, Luc

Yes, British badges are often faked or reproduced in the wrong metals, sometimes it seems that the faker is trying to introduce a new & unknown variety, other times it's hard to understand why they do it.
The classic case is KIng Edward's Horse, there are convincing versions of that badge around in white metal, but according to Kipling & King it was never produced in that metal & they stae that it's a fake/ A lot of people now think it's genuine because it's been around for a few decades & looks the part.

As far as I'm aware this RUR badge was only produced in white metal.

We need a bit of help on this badge, somebody knows the details re. this particular design.

By the way, spotted the black RIR badge on a dealers site just now for £35.
Black paint hides a multitude of sins, it's always worth giving blackened brass badges a second look in case they're ringers.

[lnijherald]

Yes, British badges are often faked or reproduced in the wrong metals

Hi Leigh,
I can't believe this, some people are even less scrupulous than I thought, or am I naive here? If it is a repro, it is well made; lovely heavy quality!

£35 is a very decent price, I'm willing to sell for half that amount . If you like I could send you some better pictures for you to judge, just PM me your e-mail address.
Thanks for your wonderful help!
Regards, Luc

[leigh kitchen]

I'm not much good at telling fake / genuine from photos I'm afraid, that's why I tend not to offer opinions unless somethings got "fake" written all over it - like being in the wrong metal or whatever.
Where are all these blokes that can give a proper answer on the "small" badge?

[lnijherald]

Where are all these blokes that can give a proper answer on the "small" badge?

Haha, and I thought you were the guru of metal badges!
Regards, Luc

[leigh kitchen]

Nah, they were floating around in the 70's & 80's, fake ones, & I did'nt take much notice because they did'nt fit my collecting theme, & now I ca'nt remember what they're about - the garage is stacked to the roof with stuff so i can't get to the books that'll tell me........