NZ airgunner

[pfrost]

Here is a nice photo of a NZ observer.

[Allan H.]

Patrick,
This is a very nice photo of a Kiwi Aerial Observer. I am a little confused by the photo and perhaps some of our British brothers here can explain.
The photo clearly shows a Serjeant in the RNZAF. What I find odd is that he is enlisted and an observer. I was under the impression that observers were always "commissioned" officers? Isn't that the way it was in the RAF during WWII? Was it possible to be a Serjeant in the RAF and rate as an aerial observer?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Allan

[Gene]

Wasn't the the best Defiant crew during the Battle of Britain (pilot and gunner) also a couple of NCO's?

[SHEARING-CROSS]

Hiya super photo ,many thanks for showing .
yes , im pretty certain it was possible to be a sgt /observer , also if its true what i have been told very early on in the war some british air crew held the rank of corporal ? but this was soon changed , if you have any more photos like this please show !
Michael.

[Mooyman]

Hi Patrick,

WOW!! Great photo!!

Regards,

Ricardo.

[pfrost]

Hi,

You can't really see the dedication, but I believe the photo is dated 1945 (but that doesn't mean the photo was taken in 1945, eh?).

Also, this gentleman's name is Ramsey Muspratt (what a name!! Sounds like a private detective ) and the photo was taken in Cambridge, Oxford?? if the writing beneath the photo is accurate.

P. Frost

[vicjoy1945]

Hiya super photo ,many thanks for showing .
yes , im pretty certain it was possible to be a sgt /observer , also if its true what i have been told very early on in the war some british air crew held the rank of corporal ? but this was soon changed , if you have any more photos like this please show !
Michael.

Yes...in fact, I have a DFM medal group to an observer. He earned his DFM during the Battle of Britain period and was serving aboard Blenheims at the time. The pilot received a DFC...the gunner and observer earned DFMs for this particular incident.

Vic

.

[SHEARING-CROSS]

HIYA ,
If you have more details about how one crew won all these medals i would be very pleased to here ,thanks ,Michael.

[DJT]

Very nice photograph

[vicjoy1945]

HIYA ,
If you have more details about how one crew won all these medals i would be very pleased to here ,thanks ,Michael.

Here's some info from the Flight Operation Book and recommendation:

On July 18, 1940, flying from No. 2 Group - no. 15 squadron - F/O Mahler, Sgt Pavely, Sgt Baker left for a photo recon mission of the canals in Holland and Belgium. They had cleared the coast for about 10 miles when 3 M.E. 110's broke formation. Two dived towards their AC and bursts were interchanged.

The first enemy AC broke off but the second forced the attack. The A/G put in a burst at close range and it was presumed that this enemy AC crashed into the sea. The third enemy AC attacked and damaged the RAF aircraft. The AG and Observer reported inner tanks ablaze.

By this time the aircraft had made landfall 2 miles from the coast and the pilot dived to make a forced landing in the beach. This was successful. The crew ran for cover, no sooner had they done so than the aircraft blew up.

An Army officer reported that he saw the second M.E. 110 go down into the sea. The recommendation confirms that they succeeding in destroying one of the enemy aircraft.

Consequently, the pilot received the DFC...the AG and Observer both received DFMs.

thanks for the interest !!!

Vic

[Gary Cain]

Great picture! Interestingly enough there were 6,500 or so DFM's awarded and over 17,000 DFC's. The officers always get the gong's!



Gary

Yes...in fact, I have a DFM medal group to an observer. He earned his DFM during the Battle of Britain period and was serving aboard Blenheims at the time. The pilot received a DFC...the gunner and observer earned DFMs for this particular incident.

Vic

.

[Tod Rathbone]

Great photo...

...can I post it on my site?

Tod

[pfrost]

Hello,

Please, be my guest! If you want, I can send you the scanned file. Just let me know.

Best regards

Patrick

...can I post it on my site?

Tod

[Tod Rathbone]

Patrick, yes please!

And any others you think are particularly unique for air personnel.

Cheers,

Tod