Glider Wing

[pfrost]

I collect mostly USAAF wings, but pick up RAF/commonwealth wings when I find them.

This is one of my favorites. The wings are done in light blue (mostly faded from the front, clearer in the back) silk thread and the crown and lion are in gold bullion.

Since this is such a distinctive wing, does anyone have any ideas where/when it was made? Is this theate-made, English, Canadian, etc? I assume it is a WW2 (or early 1950's) Mess Dress wing based on the crown style and the bullion.

Thanks

P. Frost

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Patrick, that is a very nice wing. I would think English made. As with all these "WW2" pattern peices of insignia, cap badges, etc, they are really impossible to date. It could in theory be early post war, but with the rapid run down of the army after 1945 I would think it would most likely be wartime in date.

Mess dress wings are often all bullion in construction. I wonder if this one was worn on Service Dress?


Cheers, Ade.

[pfrost]

Hi Patrick, that is a very nice wing. I would think English made. As with all these "WW2" pattern peices of insignia, cap badges, etc, they are really impossible to date. It could in theory be early post war, but with the rapid run down of the army after 1945 I would think it would most likely be wartime in date.

Mess dress wings are often all bullion in construction. I wonder if this one was worn on Service Dress?


Cheers, Ade.

Thanks Ade,

That is pretty much what I figured, but what EXACTLY is the service dress versus the mess dress? From my 1.5 years in NROTC during college, I recall the service uniform and dress uniform. I had assumed that the RAF Mess dress was the same as the US dress uniform, but am I wrong?

Patrick

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Top quality wings Patrick

Would love to see the back when you have a spare moment.

I have seen this type on Service Dress in wartime photos, although what is odd, these have cloth rather than bullion wings.

Thanks, from Jack.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Patrick, sorry I missed seeing your reply.

Service Dress is the Khaki four pocket tunic. (Similar to US class A uniform in WW2) Mess dress is the coloured "Waiter/Monkey jacket" style tunic. This wing is an Army item and not RAF.

Cheers, Ade.

[pfrost]

Hi Patrick, sorry I missed seeing your reply.

Service Dress is the Khaki four pocket tunic. (Similar to US class A uniform in WW2) Mess dress is the coloured "Waiter/Monkey jacket" style tunic. This wing is an Army item and not RAF.

Cheers, Ade.

Hi,

Thanks for the clarification of Army vs RAF. In the back of my head, I knew it wasn't RAF, but for some reason, I just call it one of my RAF wings. I should be more careful!

Here is the back of the wing. Not a great scan, but you can see the light blue color of the wings.

Patrick

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Hello Patrick,

I was unsure at first but the scan of the reverse has now raised doubts to the authenticity of this piece, in my mind. It looks like a copy I have encountered a few times before but yours looks like it has been artificially aged. The embroidery looks typical of some other repro badges too.

Here is an identical one but in new condition.

Thanks, from Jack.

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Here is my set

Originally came from an Arnhem veteran, apparently

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Reverse

[pfrost]

Reverse

Hello,

Sure, I believe I know what type of repro's you are talking about. They make a lot of fake USAAF squadron patches, and one of the characteristics is the excess loose threads in the back. Also the cheese cloth backing is usually very loose to the felt. I have spent some time looking at those USAAF squadron patch fakes, trust me!

I will take a better scan of the back of this wing later today or tomorrow. The scan I posted isn't a very good representation of the way the wing really looks.

IMHO, based on the feel, look, and construction of this wing, I don't think it is a reproduction (but that and 1.75$ will get me a cup of coffee)! On the other hand, the wing you post sure does look like its exact mate--sigh.

Finally, the aging on the wing looks real to me. If you carefully peel back the threads on front and look at the backs of the threads, you can see some of the blue dye remaining--what you would expect if the wings were bleached out by light rather than a liquid.

Best

Patrick

[pfrost]

Here is a higher quality image of the back. Black lighting and burn test were all ok for a WW2 vintage badge.

The wings are hand sewn in light blue silk thread. The cheese cloth is glued to the felt tightly all the way around. The bullion is sewn on with yellow thread, and underlying that (which is very hard to see), is some course brown yarn.

You can see the colored yarn used for the jewels in the crown and the mouth of the lion.

I agree this wing looks alot like the repro you show above. I am also not an expert of British wings (army or RAF), but when you look and handle this wing, is sure feels right to me.

Interested in other opinions.

Patrick

[pfrost]

details of the little lion

Here is a close up of the bullion on front.

It is very high quality and looks to have some gold bullion threads mixed in with the other threads.

[pfrost]

Forgive me if I seem excessive, but here is a very high resolution scan of the back of the wing. You can see that some of the dye from either the black thread or the yarn has leached out a bit. If this was a USAAF wing, I wouldn't have any doubts, but since it is a British wing, I am open to suggestions.

Not that I haven't already formed my own opinion

P Frost

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Thanks for the extra info and scans Patrick

I still hold my opinion though Look at Peter Taylor's book he has one identical to yours, and let's say, not all of the insignia in that book is orginal

Thanks, from Jack.

[pfrost]

Hi,

Fair enough. No hurt feelings.

Best

Patrick