Rare MGS

[Tony Farrell]

Have fifteen grand floating about doing nothing? Then check this baby out. Fourteen clasps! It's enough to make you weep.
DNW

[David S]

Yikes!!!

That's about US$23,000. and change!!!

and...yes it makes me want to weep!

I've never seen a 14 bar MGS!

I have two 10 bar and a one 8 bar MGS.

Oh well!!!!!

David

[Tony Farrell]

Uh?

TWO? Two ten claspers? Oh, and an eight thrown in for good measure? Well there's a fair few quid's worth there ol' fruit - roughly equating to the national debt of a small African country. I suppose I'll have to keep selling my vital organs to third world research institutes before I'll get a sniff at even a single clasper. What do you do for a living, rob banks?

[Rick Research]

Tony: Sorry, the link just stays there laughing at me and doesn't come up. Who was it, and what are all the bars?

With zero expectation of ever owning anything from the period, I've always been a Napoleonic period reader, and have John A. Hall's "Biographical Dictionary of British Officers Killed and Wounded, 1808-14" with all those wonderful tidbits like the 18 month old whose daddy bought an ensign's commission for him but "declined to serve due to age" (though there are combat veteran officers in there as young as TEN!) and the fellow who was on active duty 75 years, etc. Or the one shot twice through the neck on separate occasions, first turning him to face behind one shoulder (must have been awkward on active duty!) and then-- lucky man-- straightening him back out (instead of going the other way round!)

[Tony Farrell]

Dead URL

Hmm, the link has gone sick on me as well. I understand the chap was an officer in charge of the baggage train - which would explain his tour t-shirt. Can't remember what the clasps were, but anything over ten is quite something!

The prices for Military General Service medals are climbing quite steadily, and despite what the Medal Yearbook says, you'd be lucky to have any change out of £1000 for a four clasper. The same can be said for its Naval counterpart. I remember NGSs with SYRIA clasps going for £140. Not any more. Now they tend to sell for around the £400 mark - and I'm only talking within the last ten years here. Madness it is.

[Rick Research]

Don't feel bad-- adjusting back with inflation, that's only about 400 years pay for the old boy. He must be spinning in a churchyard somewhere!

[David S]

From 1973 to 1998 I collected British Campaign Medals...I had a embarrasing amout to spend...

One of the ten claspers was found in an antique shop in Seattle I happened to duck in due to rain. I got the MGS 10 (W Neal-7th Ft) and a NGS w/ 2 clasp for around $125. It was 1974.

Recently I've seen a 7 clasp go in excess of £1100, but you have a 3 clasp with one being Chrystlers Farm and the price will be close to £3000.

These among others are in a bank vault awaiting my retirement in about twenty years.

I collect not for investment anymore, but for pure enjoyment!

[Dave Danner]

Link works for me, but the image might not come up:



The excessively rare fourteen clasp M.G.S. and Waterloo pair awarded to Assistant Commissary Samuel James Tibbs, Field Train Department of the Ordnance

Military General Service 1793-1814, 14 clasps, Roleia (1), Talavera (7), Busaco (7), Albuhera (2), Ciudad Rodrigo (5), Badajoz (8), Salamanca (5), Vittoria (12), Pyrenees (8), St Sebastian (12), Nivelle (5), Nive (6), Orthes (6), Toulouse (11) (S. J. Tibbs, Asst. Com. F. T. Dept.)

Waterloo 1815 (Samuel James Tibbs, Assist. Commissary of Ordnance Depart) fitted with original steel clip, straight silver bar suspension and ribbon buckle, some light contact marks, otherwise very fine and one of only two such pairs ever issued

The Field Train Department of the Ordnance was a separate corps under overall command of the Royal Artillery. In Folio 33 of the Medal Roll for the M.G.S. Medal (WO 100/1) there is the following note explaining the duties: “With reference to the officers of the Field Train Department I have to remark that the chief duties they had to perform were to supply the several regiments with ammunition that might be required during action, and were all under the immediate direction of the Commanding Officer of the Royal Artillery.”

The official list of Officer’s Awards, published in the Army List in 1853, confirms all 14 clasps. The Waterloo Roll Call by Charles Dalton confirms Tibbs as one of only two officers of the Field Train Department present at Waterloo and additionally notes: “Served through the whole of the Peninsular War, and in 1848 received the medal with fourteen clasps. He also received the Waterloo medal.”

Of the twelve recipients of medals with 14 clasps, only one other, James Morris of the 52nd Foot, was also present at Waterloo. Neither of the two recipients of 15 clasp medals was at Waterloo, making Tibbs the only officer to receive this maximum entitlement. The following interesting article was published in The Regiment(Vol.1 No 22) on 29 August, 1896:

Commissary-General Samuel J. Tibbs

‘Before the days of the Crimean War it was not the custom to be-medal the warriors of old, or those who won their spurs under the baptism of fire, as it has become customary so to do of late. Since Waterloo, outside India, we had no big campaigns until the Crimean War from 1854 until about June, 1856, two years. In that two years’ campaign it was possible for an Officer to obtain the Crimean Medal, Sardinian Medal, Order of the Medjidie, Legion of Honour, Turkish Medal, etc. - five medals and orders. In this instance Commissary General Samuel J. Tibbs, Royal Artillery Field Train, only received the two war medals Peninsula and Waterloo, with “bars” for those battles in which he was actually under fire.

The family of this old General have tried to discover, either at the Horse Guards or at the British Museum, whether any other officer had been under fire so frequently or gained the “bars” for so many battles, but none can be traced. No other officer who served during the Peninsula War, excepting the “Iron Duke” had the same number of bars to his Waterloo and Peninsula medals as Commissary General Samuel J. Tibbs.

The number of battles, sieges, etc. when General Tibbs was under fire we now enumerate: (1) Roleia 17th August, 1808, (2) Talavera, (3) Busaco, (4) Albuhera, (5) Ciudad Rodrigo, (6) Badajoz, (7)Salamanca, (8) Vittoria, (9) Pyrenees, (10) St Sebastian (siege), (11) Nivelle, (12) Nive, (13) Orthes, (14) Peninsula (sic should read Toulouse), (15) Quatre Bras, (16) Waterloo.

He was also at Fuentes d’Onoro and at Almeida but there was some hitch about getting “bars” for these, as there was no one who could certify that on these occasions he had “been under fire.” After a certain battle General Tibbs was recommended for promotion to the Commander-in-Chief by Sir Alexander Dickson, then commanding the Royal Artillery.

During the Peninsula War the subject of this sketch was in command of an ammunition convoy to the front, with the late Duke of Wellington. The Duke of Wellington had received complaints from the Spaniards and Portuguese that certain troops had entered the country churches and chapels, and committed sacrilege therein. On hearing this the Duke of Wellington issued stringent orders that under no consideration or excuse were the troops to again enter the churches and chapels, except for the purpose for which they were built, and that he would most assuredly hang the next offender or offenders. During the march when Commissary-General Tibbs was in charge of the above-mentioned convoy, consisting of much ammunition and several guns for the army at Salamanca, a violent thunderstorm overtook the convoy and the only building shelter of any description near them was a wayside country chapel. The Commander of the Convoy pondered for a moment over the matter and thought, “If I obey orders, the ammunition will be ruined and useless. Better be hanged than run the risk of the troops falling short of ammunition” and forthwith told the soldiers under his command to break open the chapel door. Thus the ammunition was stored in safety. When the storm abated, the gallant old warrior resumed his march with dry and serviceable ammunition. He duly arrived at the Duke’s headquarters, reported arrival and so forth, but in the meantime some of the country people found out that the convoy with ammunition had broken open their chapel door, and hurried to headquarters and lodged the complaint.

The Duke, on hearing the report, was furious and demanded who was the Officer that had command of the convoy and disobeyed his orders, adding, “I will assuredly hang him.” Fortunately for General Tibbs he had a personal friend on the Duke’s staff, who, on hearing the threat, hurried to him and said “Sam, go back at once, as the Commander-in-Chief swears he will hang you for disobedience of orders and desecrating the chapel.”

When Wellington learnt who the officer was, he told the Staff Officer to bring him before him. To which Tebbs’s friend replied, “I have sent him back on some other duty, my Lord.” After this incident the Staff Officer talked to Lord Wellington (as he then was) and reasoned with him, that the circumstances were exceptional and that if the Officer in command of the convoy had not used his own discretion, the whole of the ammunition would have been ruined and useless, and the impending battle lost, i.e. the battle of Salamanca, and Salamanca is one of the clasps of his famous medal. It may be interesting to mention that the late Commissary-General Tibbs’s friend on the Duke’s Staff was the late Lord Raglan, who commanded the troops in the Crimea.

Such a glorious record of war service ought not to be lost sight of and shall emulate those who are fortunate as to be still in the grand and glorious old Army of the best Queen whoever sat on England’s throne. The medals and uniform of the late Commissary-General Samuel J. Tibbs, Royal Artillery Field Train, are in the possession of his son, who is a clergyman of the Church of England.’

Samuel James Tibbs was born circa 1787 and was appointed Conductor, 10 May 1808: Clerk, 9 May 1810; Assisstant Commissary, 1 June 1814; served in the Peninsula 1808-14, and the Campaign in the Netherlands including the battle of Waterloo 1815; Retired on Half Pay, 6 August 1816; Recalled, 2 December 1819; Retired on Half Pay, 31 October 1826.

£15,000

[Simon O.]

lurvely medals. Wonder if the guy new Sharpey of the 95th

I'd really like to see these go to the Royal Artillery museum due to their uniqueness and importance....but.


Hadn't been to their site before. Take a look at the VC section! £95 000 for a Rorke's Drift VC

[Rick Research]

All of that and not a scratch! I wonder when the old fellow died?

[manuidat]

Stolen

Hi,
I was the one who purchased the MGS & Waterloo pair to Tibbs.
the pair is now classed as stolen, and any information leading to their whereabouts in the last 4 years would be greatly appreciated