DFC at auction

[ROBB]

I was down at the South Coast looking at some things at an auction house and there was a DFC ww1 /ww2 group to a guy named Chandler .described as medals with an estimate of £80 -£120 .The DFC has 1918 on the back and etched at the bottom is 1945 ,There is a mini bar as well which has the Aircrew Europe ,but the full size Air Crew Europe is missing .The medals are DFC 1939-45 star Italy star (or F&G star) defence ,war and a general service medal with a Malay clasp named to chandler RAF .Then the minis with the addition of the Air Crew europe ,and 2 ww1 medals named to Chandler RAF .

I thought I would give it a go , any hints on buying a DFC would be welcome ie do they make top quality fakes ,are there private purchase varieties etc ,thankyou Rob.
Sorry no pictures .

[Garth Thompson]

I was down at the South Coast looking at some things at an auction house and there was a DFC ww1 /ww2 group to a guy named Chandler .described as medals with an estimate of £80 -£120 .The DFC has 1918 on the back and etched at the bottom is 1945 ,There is a mini bar as well which has the Aircrew Europe ,but the full size Air Crew Europe is missing .The medals are DFC 1939-45 star Italy star (or F&G star) defence ,war and a general service medal with a Malay clasp named to chandler RAF .Then the minis with the addition of the Air Crew europe ,and 2 ww1 medals named to Chandler RAF .

I thought I would give it a go , any hints on buying a DFC would be welcome ie do they make top quality fakes ,are there private purchase varieties etc ,thankyou Rob.
Sorry no pictures .

Robb,
What is the fellows rank? The DFC is as you know a officer/WO award, DFM for NCO/OR's. The 1945 on the DFC would indicate a GEO VI WW2 award with the WW1 medals he would have been a little long in the tooth to be a fighter pilot, possibly transport or costal command. The 1918 on the reverse is the institution date. MYB shows an attributed GEO VI DFC group at 1200-3500 quid. The auction house doesn't seem very well informed.
Garth

[ROBB]

Hi Garth thanks for the info ,Perhaps the ww1 medals were a relatives .I shall, give them a ring and find out his rank .Rob.

[ROBB]

Well I rang them up ,he was a Flight Lieutenant A R Chandler ,the ww1 medals have a different set of initials so must be his dads .Rob.

[vicjoy1945]

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Its hard to nail down a current value for WWII British DFCs since its hard to find examples these days. I've seen them listed on British dealer websites now and then. I just saw a group with a 1943 DFC, campaign stars, and named GSM for around $4,000.00 USD.

What is the going rate for a ID'd early WWII dated DFC grouping ??? How about a grouping with a named medal and how about one without a named medal but ID'd ???

How about early WWII DFM groupings which are much scare ???

.

[ROBB]

Just a follow up .Sold for £2000 Rob.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Usual ploy...

Hi Robb, once again the auction house puts a low estimate to drag in the punters. I take it you did not buy it then?


Cheers, Ade.

[vicjoy1945]

Hey ROBB and Adrian !!

Are either of you coming to the Show of Shows in Louisville, Kentucky USA ??

Thanks,

Vic

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[ROBB]

Hi Vic thanks for the invite .Unfortunately I cant make it ,but I will try next year ,its about time I popped over the water to sample an American fair .Rob.

Ade , I left a bid of £422 ,on the off chance no one else spotted them ,but word spreads fast nowadays when it comes to nice items of militaria ,and the dealers always end up knowing about these little auctions.Still I bought a little box of paper items ,which I think belonged to the pilot for £25 (no log book or anything exciting) but there was a nice beware VD pamphlet in there .Rob.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Vic, I have never been to the USA, but I hope to get to one of the big shows someday. It would be great to meet up with all you guys from the States.


Hi Robb, it is getting a small world and finding bargains is very difficult today. But please show us what you did obtain.

Cheers, Ade.

[ROBB]

Here you go ,nothing to exciting ,the ENSA leaflets are nice ,and the docket for something from the German Flugplatzcommando in Belgium .Still I shall stick it all on ebay and hopefully make a few pennies ,Rob.

[vicjoy1945]

Hi Vic, I have never been to the USA, but I hope to get to one of the big shows someday. It would be great to meet up with all you guys from the States.


Hi Robb, it is getting a small world and finding bargains is very difficult today. But please show us what you did obtain.

Cheers, Ade.

Hi Ade & ROBB,

Just got back from the show...I had a great time and saw a tremendous amount of militaria. I picked up a nice WWI US Purple Heart medal grouping with a large amount of paper and items to a 77th Division soldier. There are 1400 table at this show...its huge !!! It takes 1/2 a day to make one pass through the hall. I did take a WWII British DFC grouping and a WWII MC grouping with me but neither managed to sell. I was fairly astonished since I didn't see much of these types of medals there. John Dixon was quite certain they would sell, but, alas they didn't...maybe next time. I'm not a dealer so most collectors don't look to me when searching for medals.

Vic
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[Garth Thompson]

Just a follow up .Sold for £2000 Rob.

Rob,
The group did about right. There were two at the SOS, one had the British DFC with the usual stars and medals and mounted at the end was an American DFC, fully engraved, to the pilot for $3900 and the other was very similar with no American DFC about $3000. Roughly the equivilent of the 2000 quid group that went at your auction. I wonder if your auction house had a schill in the crowd.
Garth

[vicjoy1945]

HI ROBB,

I knew of both British DFC groups that Garth mentions in his post.

I saw the British DFC with the American DFC. The group was bar mounted and the British DFC was dated 1945. The American DFC was privately engraved and was NOT the official engraving as issued by the US government to its own flyiers. However, I'm not sure if all American gallantry awards that were issued to Brit flyiers were officially engraved...although I do have a US Navy awarded Air Medal to a New Zealand fighter pilot that is elaborately and officially engraved.

Regarding the other grouping (which is mine), the British DFC is dated "1941" and has the corresponding campaign medals....39-45 Star, Air Crew Europe, and 39-45 War medal. The DFC is on its own brooch while the campaigns are bar mounted separetly. It does not have a corresponding "named" medal nor does it have a log book (that would have been nice), but, it does have the original transmital slip for his campaign medals as a casualty.

This DFC grouping is to S/LDR Jack Donald Harris who flew with squadron No. 140. He joined the unit on November 20th 1940. He was employed through out the winter months as an instructor converting the squadron from Battles to Wellingtons. He flew his first operational as a Captain on April 15th, 1941. At the time of his DFC recomendation, he had flown 19 sorties and logged 111 hours and 45 minutes combat air time as a flight leader for the squadron in Wellingtons. Unfortunately, he was killed April 18, 1942 on a non-operational intensive development flight of Lancaster aircraft No R.5539.

The group is fully researched with copies of his operation flight records book and includes his DFC recomendation and an excerpt from a book describing the Lanc test flight incident in which he lost his life.

Thanks,

Vic

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[JBFloyd]

The DFC group on the table at Louisville was to F/O S.J. Rand. I was interested to see it as I have Rand's group with his log book, US general orders and citation and a congratulatory letter from AM Keith Park.

I'll stick with mine, which is backed by original paper and cost $1100 less.