17/21 Lancers cap badges

[Infanteer]

I have a couple of these and have noticed that there are many variations. I also realize that this badge has been copied and was wondering if someone can tell me how to identify a real badge and/or show some photos of good pieces. I have been looking for a long time for a blackened brass (copper?) badge to add to my collection... any ideas where to find one?

Steve

[max7474]

[Unfortunately the badge is so simple to make and has been made so so many different dies it is a really easy one to copy and very difficult to tell the real from old copies. The Queens Royal lancer regt still wear the identical badge with a red backing and the troopers (as did the 17/21st lancers) buy their own metal badges privately as the staybrite ones are frowned upon. Privately made but worn by the genuine solidiery badges - genuine or not? I have one collected in 1940s by my grandfather where the badge is solid and does not have the void between the skull and the crossbones that you normaaly see.

An officer friend of mine in the QRL wore a small blackened brass one with lugs in his beret but the ordinary soliery always wore white metal (although sometimes painted black for NI service). The WW1 economy ones were all brass but not blackened.

My tip would be look for one with a long tapered slider (most restrike ones are short and broad of the standard Gaunt size) check the age of the solder and look for genuine wear from polishing on the front and tarnish on the reverse. There are no special design or construction tips for this badge unlike alot of the others to spot the copy.

Alan

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Steve, like Alan has mentioned these badges are quite tricky to determine as real or not.

I have one in my collection which was a 1980's private purchase example worn by the Regt. My friend served with them in the 1970's onwards. I will photograph it for you and post some pics. The Regt call the badge "The Motto".

Cheers, Ade.

[leigh kitchen]

Also produced in chromed finish, non-optional private purchase, to be worn in lieu of the anodised version.

At least they were in the 1970's, cost 25p.

[Infanteer]

Wow, I knew that these badges were copied but didn't think it was going to be quite so difficult to sort out the issue ones... apparently, not really an issue though. I have a chrome finish badge that I traded for in the early 90's at an exercise in Suffield, Alberta. I believe it was one of their last exercises before the big change.

Alan and Ade, I would love to see your badges if possible.

Cheers, Steve

[leigh kitchen]

Kipling & King state that there was an OR's bronzed badge, WWI, I don't think that they illustrate it, I've never seen one, only officers bronze & officers silver / silver plate, on a pair of caps that I was stupid enough not to buy).

[Adrian Stevenson]

Here is mine; this is like Leigh describes too.

My friend, Bob, always used to wear a brass one during his service. He still has it.

As an aside to this, if you have seen the film "A Bridge Too Far", Bob was in this. He was a driver for the Leopard tank seen crossing the bridge, crashing through buildings, etc In the scene where Sean Connery escapes from the house and the German tank crew get shot up, Bob is one kneeling down fixing the tank wheel.

Cheers, Ade.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Reverse. Note the heavy plated finish chrome finish.

[Keith Blakeman]

Alan and Ade, I would love to see your badges if possible.

Cheers, Steve

Steve,
Here's a whitemetal one I recently obtained. I'm not able to tell which era it's from but am assured by the seller it's genuine.

Keith

[W Petz]

Here is one that is bronze that I picked up in a English Antique shop down the road from the front gate of SHAPE, Belgium back in 1975. I believe it to be an original possibly from WW1. Sorry for the blurry pics as my digital is crap. - Bill

[W Petz]

pic #2

[W Petz]

Reverse #1

[W Petz]

reverse #2

[W Petz]

reverse #3

[Infanteer]

Beautiful badges guys! Have a look at mine and let me know what you think. The one on the left is came from a member of 17/21 in the early 90's, but the one on the right was purchased at a gun show a week ago. Because the design and size are so different, and because it has lugs instead of a slider, I thought that it may be for use on an ammo pouch or something else other than a piece of headgear. Of course it could just be an outright fake... but I still think it looks good.

Steve

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...pbadges006.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...pbadges008.JPG