Who is this?

[Gerd Becker]

Hello genleman,

can someone tell me, who this VC-bearer is?(Whats the correct translation for the german word Träger in connection with decorations?). Its from a DVD about the bomb-raid on Dresden. One of the pilots or commanders?

Thanks in advance

regards,
Gerd

[DJT]

Hi Gerd,

I dont know the veterans name but he is obviously an Air Force man from his DFC (Your guess that he is a bomber pilot could be correct). I believe the word Träger translates into english as Wearer or Holder of an award.

[Jim Maclean]

Looks like Leonard Cheshire, a great man!

[Si1964]

Jim I would agree with you Leonard Cheshire VC - was he not Knighted?

[Si1964]

Here you are Gerd


Leonard Cheshire was born in Chester, England, on 7th September 1917. He was educated at Stowe School and Merton College, Oxford.

After the outbreak of the Second World War he joined the Royal Air Force. He was posted to 102 Squadron and by August 1942 had been promoted to squadron commander of of 76 Squadron. In March 1943 at the age if twenty-five he became the youngest group captain in the RAF.

In November 1943 he was given command of 617 Squadron and over the next few months developed new low-level marking techniques that dramatically increased bombing accuracy.

In 1944 Cheshire was awarded the Victoria Cross after completing a hundred bombing missions on heavily defended targets in Germany. Cheshire was chosen as the official British observer of the atom bomb dropped on Nagasaki.

After the war Cheshire dedicated his life to maintaining world peace and was a member of CND. Cheshire also joined with his wife, Sue Ryder, to establish the Sue Rider Foundation for the sick and disabled. Leonard Cheshire, who was created Baron Cheshire in 1991, died on 31st July, 1992

[Gerd Becker]

Absolutely fantastic! You guys are awesome.

100 bomber missions? Wow, i bet, there were not many with such a high number of missions.

Thanks a million.

[Adam H]

Some impressive gongs on display there to be sure. Note the "Battle of Britain" clasp on the DSO group to Cheshire's left (right of screen) wonder who that is?

Gerd, while Traeger would translate as wearer in a literal sense, I think the more suitable English term is probably a "recipient of the VC".

Cheers,

Adam

[Gerd Becker]

Some impressive gongs on display there to be sure. Note the "Battle of Britain" clasp on the DSO group to Cheshire's left (right of screen) wonder who that is?

Gerd, while Traeger would translate as wearer in a literal sense, I think the more suitable English term is probably a "recipient of the VC".

Cheers,

Adam

Thanks Adam (and Des of course) for the correct term. I was never 100% sure, when i used these words.

best,
Gerd

[Darrell]

Here you are Gerd


In 1944 Cheshire was awarded the Victoria Cross after completing a hundred bombing missions on heavily defended targets in Germany.

Anyone else find this rather odd? What targets were NOT heavily defended? I wonder how many were issued a VC for similar accomplishments.

Im not taking anything away for 100 missions ... unbelievable number. But wouldnt this be worthy more of a service decoration than a "Gallantry" one

[Ciaran Byrne]

Hmmm, I dunno. Going on 100 boming missions at night amid copious amounts of flak, not to mention night fighters seems pretty gallant to me.

[Gerd Becker]

Hmmm, I dunno. Going on 100 boming missions at night amid copious amounts of flak, not to mention night fighters seems pretty gallant to me.

Well, i would agree. Survive 100 missions over germany is something really impressive and is IMO an act of gallantry. not?

I don´t know much about the british decoration system, but wouldn´t have a german bomber pilot have gotten at least Oaks and swords for it, if not more?
I have started a thread about the comparability of german and foreign orders, but it is obviously impossible to compare them, as the systems are too different. But i still think, O/S with diamonds are comparable to the VC at least to a certain degree.

Thanks for the input, guys

best,
Gerd

[Ciaran Byrne]

One thing I have to say about the VC is that it is a true gallantry medal not a political one. What i mean to say is that if you compare it with the Hero of the Soviet Union medal or even the Knights Cross, certain persons were awarded these for reasons other than gallantry. Off the top of my head, I cannot remember the name of the chief recruiting officer for the Waffen SS but he was awarded the KC for his effiency. Also, President Breznev was awarded 4 HSU for what, God only knows.

[Gerd Becker]

One thing I have to say about the VC is that it is a true gallantry medal not a political one. What i mean to say is that if you compare it with the Hero of the Soviet Union medal or even the Knights Cross, certain persons were awarded these for reasons other than gallantry. Off the top of my head, I cannot remember the name of the chief recruiting officer for the Waffen SS but he was awarded the KC for his effiency. Also, President Breznev was awarded 4 HSU for what, God only knows.

Thats true. So is it imo absolutey ok, that Mr. Cheshire got the VC for his 100 missions. The regulations to earn a medal had to be expanded sometimes, when it was necessary. And it was done, like it seems.

best,
Gerd

[ROBB]

100 bombing missions ! imagine that .Its incredible I think most bombing crews (if they survived ) did a maximum of 25 .My RE teacher did his 25 in Lancs and got the DFC .He was so upset about all the people he killed ,he devoted his life to Religion .My Great Uncle got shot down in his Lanc and suffered severe burns to his hands . In the Commonwealth you had to actually earn your gallantry awards .And I think flying a pieece of wood and canvas over a heavily defended Reich 100 times is pretty impressive .Rob.

[Gerd Becker]

100 bombing missions ! imagine that .Its incredible I think most bombing crews (if they survived ) did a maximum of 25 .My RE teacher did his 25 in Lancs and got the DFC .He was so upset about all the people he killed ,he devoted his life to Religion .My Great Uncle got shot down in his Lanc and suffered severe burns to his hands . In the Commonwealth you had to actually earn your gallantry awards .And I think flying a pieece of wood and canvas over a heavily defended Reich 100 times is pretty impressive .Rob.

It is without a doubt. And i don´t want to know, how many comrades he must have lost.

Does anyone know, who the bomber pilot with the most missons was? Is there a list somewhere about the top bomber pilots?

regards,
Gerd