A British Sword for Review

[Military Trader]

Hi. i picked up a couple of British swords in a trade. The first one is in better condition and more complete. They came from two different sources to the same shop. Just thought I'd tell you what the guy (shop owner) said about them and see if this is correct.

He said the first one was a model 1845 British infantry officer's sword, manufactured between 1850-1854. He based this on the brass scabbard, the rose thistle on the cypher, and the folding guard. It has a nice gold portepee and a hanger (of what vintage I'm not sure). Any of this add up? Why a gold knot?

Secondly ,in poor condition, is what he called a model 1893 British sword. Looks like someone added a gold wash.

Just checking to see if what he says is close to accurate.

Thanks for any info you might have.

Dennis

[Military Trader]

2

[Military Trader]

3

[Military Trader]

4

[Military Trader]

The second sword -- what he said was a model 1893

[merdock]

Hi,
Can't really help you out with the description of them but over here there are a very common dress sword not intended for battle, most military outlets and antiques shop have a example, price wise about $250 but there aren't too many takers for them,they have them for years and never sell them,over there I assume there rarer but who would actually want one,
Mark

[Beater]

Hi,
I'm away from my Robson's book, so can't be sure, however the first one is pretty much as described. Infantry officers sword with the "Wilkinson" style of blade which replaced the earlier quill back at around 1850? Folding guards were also abolished in the mid 1850's, which would seem to tie in with the dates you have.
As to brass scabbards, I think that was a rank related feature (again from memory) and may signify a field officer? They were easily bent and dented, so not very practical. I do not agree with the previous contributor - that is a fighting sword. They were not very well liked for a number of reasons, but saw action in a number of theatres if war, including Indian Mutiny and famously seen in the Zulu film, carried by Michael Cain.
The second sword may well be an Artillery Officers? Three bar (steel) hilt and stepped pommel cap.
What are the makers details of these two please?
I might be able to improve on this when I get hold of my books.
Regards,
Kevin.

[ROBB]

Is the photo a negative the makers mark makes no sense ? Nice sword though . Second is pretty common and not worth much unless named to a nice regiment on the blade . Rob

[RJKG]

2nd sword appears to be a sword, light cavalry, officer's undress, 1821 pattern. The absence of a scabbard will obviously impact significantly on the value.

[Military Trader]

Thanks guys -- yeah Robb I don't know what the heck I did but here is the corrected photo

[Beater]

2nd sword appears to be a sword, light cavalry, officer's undress, 1821 pattern. The absence of a scabbard will obviously impact significantly on the value.

I'm not disagreeing with this suggestion as both the Artillery and 1821 light cavalry have similar, three bar hilts and stepped pommels. The easy to spot differences are:- the 1821 has a slightly curved blade, which your photos didn't show and the Artillery is straighter. The hook projection off the backstrap side of the guard is usually longer and with a deeper curve on the 1822, Artillery shorter and less curved. Also most Artillery swords have a cannon somewhere in the etching on the blade.

Agreed about pricing without scabbard - generally half the value of sword in similar condition with its scabbard, is a general rule of thumb.

I like the Infantry officers sword a lot. Nice honest looking sword. I'd make you an offer if you were in the UK

Hinged guards were discarded in 1854 and the replacement blade style (often referred to as Wilkinson style, although made by other firms too) was introduced in 1845.

[ROBB]

I agree nice sword , Rob

[Military Trader]

Thanks for all observations guys. The second one has a Wilkinson blade (maker). The first one is a good clean sword and I like that it had the knot and hanger. I'm sure I have (in trade) double what its worth in it (as well as the second one too) but that's how it goes.

Dennis

[peter monahan]

The sword knot on the first one is a standard officer's knot for the period, I think. Gold or silver depending on the lacing colour of the regiment, not on rank. I'm not so sure about the hanger - may niot be British - but someone with the books may have more information on that. I'm just not sure - it may be fine but a very faint voice in my head says 'no'.