The "Other Shoe" just dropped.

[james m]

Subject: EU Parliament Directive to Effectively Ban Ownership of Vintage Military Firearms

Friends:

As a member of the Executive Board of the International Committee of Museums and Collections of Arms and Military History (ICOMAM)— although on my "twilight cruise", after having served the maximum two three-year terms— I have been made aware of a new directive coming before the European Union parliament which, as we understand it, will effectively ban the private ownership of military firearms of all types (there is no distinction in the verbiage between modern and antique arms), in the European Union— whether they are deactivated or functioning. All of this is being justified by the need for increased security to fight “terrorism”, and, most curiously, European arms collectors are being blamed for the problem.

The impact on museums is the requirement to have ALL military arms in museum collections permanently de-activated, and that was how ICOMAM was brought into the fray. However, this is not just a museum problem, but one for military arms collectors, vintage firearms hobby shooters, volunteer “living history” interpreters, and re-enactors. I need not expound about the impact of this proposed directive on military history to all of you

[peter monahan]

If implemented as you suggest, that will indeed be draconian and have a huge negative effect on many. Is there any evidece that you're aware of that anyone has or will be approaching the EU law makers to discuss exemptions for bona fide antiques and/or bona fide museums and collectors?

[james m]

That's my question as well and I don't know what exactly they can do since there is no equivalent to the NRA in Europe.
IMO : If the collectors over there just let this go they'll be one step closer to an outright ban.
Jim

[Seigfried]

Can you please provide some evidence for this statement? I've googled it and nothing came up. Have you an email, a letter? I cannot believe that they intend to strip the whole of Europe's museums not to mention the thousands of collectors of antique/vintage weapons (esp when there is no register!)

[Britian_Jacky]

If true this is what I would say to the Eu parliament:
Get your sh*t toghther. To fight terrorism, take your troops to the source. Why the fck do we have no right to own DEAC guns? They are deactivated geniuses, they won't fire anymore. The reason terrorist have guns is because you can buy them illegally. They are also untraceable. Who the hell came up with this dumb cr*p?

Well if it happens then history will be absolutely f*cked.
Just my opinion
Jacky

[paul_bish@mac.c]

there is some info here


https://www.change.org/p/council-of-...share_petition


http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-6110_en.htm

And a good thread here
http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread...LY-DEACTIVATED

[peter monahan]

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

The middle link above, which is to an EU official press release suggests that the new legislation will introduce:

"Stricter conditions for the circulation of deactivated firearms;
Stricter conditions for collectors to limit the risk of sale to criminals."

That's a long way from banning and confiscating all of them. One of the rants above - yes, I believe rant is the operative word - and one of the posts on the third link refer to politicians' 'knee jerk' reaction to terror attacks. Lets try not to joing in with knee jerk reactions to what on the face of it sound like reasonable measures. Being branded 'gun nuts' doesn't help anyone.

Peter

[nickn]

Reasonable measure normally lead to unreasonable ones
Any new rules on deactivated or antique guns will have no effect on the criminal use of firearms

[peter monahan]

"Reasonable measure normally lead to unreasonable ones". You have a very depressing view of the world, sir. My sympathies.

[17thairborne]

"Reasonable measure normally lead to unreasonable ones". You have a very depressing view of the world, sir. My sympathies.

Peter,
Depressing or not, I have to agree with nickn on this one. Every measure which is intended to reduce criminal activity, invariably puts the pressure on law abiding citizens, and each time when the politicians realize their previous measure did not work, they double down. Stupidity followed by more stupidity!

Not a depressing view, but a realistic one. Anyone who thinks politicians make a positive difference in today's world of corruption, power peddling and money grubbing presents the appearance of naïveté .

[Seigfried]

Still looking for a Luger, P38, MkII Sten (old spec) and a Long Lee if anyone is feeling the heat and feels the need to get rid

[nickn]

"Reasonable measure normally lead to unreasonable ones". You have a very depressing view of the world, sir. My sympathies.

So you think the history of gun control has been good for collectors?
The restrictions ,at least in the UK , always get well more restrictive with no reduction in the criminal use of firearms
So yes I do have a very depressed view of gun control and the politicians who make these silly laws

[Z19]

guns

Anyone who thinks politicians make a positive difference in today's world of corruption, power peddling and money grubbing presents the appearance of naïveté .

Without getting political I completely agree with this statement. Politicians of both parties care nothing about the will of voters anymore...NOTHING. It's like they know whats "best" for us

[peter monahan]

Clearly I've struck a nerve here. I sit in Canada with laws nowhere near as restrictive as in the UK and, thank God, nowhere near as lax as in the US. There, my position stated. Leaving aside ad hominem attacks on politicians of all stripes, no, I don't think the average legislator gives a toss for gun collectors but I'd like to think that the various organizations, including museum associations, shooting clubs and so on, have enough nous to make presentations, start petitions and so on to make the valid point that some of us are to be trusted with guns of various sorts.

My initial reaction was to what I saw as the tenor of the post which began this thread. Here is what James M said:
"I have been made aware of a new directive coming before the European Union parliament which, as we understand it, will effectively ban the private ownership of military firearms of all types... The impact on museums is the requirement to have ALL military arms in museum collections permanently de-activated..."

So far, despite requests, James has provided no details to back up or sources for his claim, which BTW is self contradictory - either all ownership is banned OR all weapons are to be deactivated. [I assume museums count as 'private owners']. Yes, be concerned. But first, take a deep breath and find out what the new laws may/will say!

[james m]

I posted this as what I thought was an interesting piece of information and I don't have a "dog in this fight" as the old saying goes so it's up to those potentially affected to decide if it's a real problem. I generally stay out of foreign countries politics for the same reason. I have made no attempt to comment on Canada's gun laws as I don't live there and your reasons for enacting them may be unclear to me as a foreigner.

However Peter you have raised an interesting point:
Just why do you "thank God, nowhere near as lax as the United States"? in regard to our firearms regulations. I will tell you that there are over 20,000 firearms regulations on the books here and if you really want to discuss this feel free to contact me off the forum as "political discussions" are not permitted on WAF.