British Para helmet questions.

[SMP]

Hi,
Can anyone tell me why some British leather chin-straps are stitched while others are riveted. Is one early and the other late ?
Also does the colour of the rubber padding (yellow/ black ) in fibre-rimmed , 2nd patterns hold any significance ?

Any info welcome.
Regards,
Steve

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Hello Steve,

Very nice fibre rim you got on ebay, congratulations

Stitched chin straps are an earlier design than riveted chin straps. The rubber padding in 1st patterns is generally yellow and on 2nd patterns it is a brown kinda colour coated in a thick black rubber like substance. It is very prone to cracking.

Thanks, from Jack.
PS. Could you post a pic of your new purchase when it arrives?

[SMP]

Hello Steve,

Very nice fibre rim you got on ebay, congratulations

Hey! that might not be me .

Thanks Jack.
The one on e-bay has black "sorbo" rubber and stitched chin-straps. My two fibre-rimmed helmets all have yellow "sorbo" and rivets .
I presume you liked the e-bay helmet then ? I believe the purchaser has a return option still

Cheers,
Steve

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Yes Steve, IMO it was 100% spot on one. You are correct, in general the padding on earlier helmets was yellow but I don't think it is unusual to find one with black instead. I don't have any facts on this but perhaps someone could clarify? Remember, these were made out of components that were interchangeable and it could be that half old and half new stock was used? Still I think the one you got was really nice and most importantly unmessed about with.

I'd be interested in knowing what kind of colour it is though? The pictures showed it quite yellow?

Thanks

[DJT]

I have a fibre rim with black padding instead of yellow. As Jack says, most had the yellow but not all.

[SMP]

Thanks for the replies

Finally a photo for Jack:


Steve

[SMP]

other side:

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Lovely early 1st pattern with stitched straps and a yellowish finish with IMO N. Africa in mind

Thanks for showing from Jack.

[force136]

Hi Guys

I have been doing extensive research into para helmets for a book on the history - uniforms and insignia of the 1st canadian parachute battalion. I was able to locate quite a few doc's from Brit Ordnance on the British Helmets. These were all called MK I . The move from fibre rim to all steel is still a MK I and only a revision. Both are properly titled MK I N0. 5. Helmet Steel Airborne Troops. The web was MK II. The yellow foam actually came after the black foam. It was an economy measure to preserve certain ingredients used to make the black foam. Originally the helmets had black foam and black foam with fibre inserts. You will also note that some liners have both sections of yellow and black foam, this was to use up old stocks. The harness was originally sewn and had a small formed chin cup. ( many of these leftovers or salvaged from earlier "P" type helmts that had the draw at the sides and back, Many MK I were created from old "P"types ) Then the harness was widened and had a shallow draw to the chin cup. Later examples which were riveted as the sticthing was not considered strong enough. They also had flat cups. Anyway hope that helps,

Ken Joyce

Lovely early 1st pattern with stitched straps and a yellowish finish with IMO N. Africa in mind

Thanks for showing from Jack.

[Guy]

Great stuff Ken,

Thank you very much for laying to rest any confusion about these helmets. When is the book coming out it sounds as though it will be extremely informative.

All The Best, Yours, Guy.

[SMP]

Thank you Ken, good info.
I too have found out more since I posted the question. The yellow rubber came about when supplies of natural rubber became critical. A supply of rubber was found (via the RAF) , but it was yellow ! This was used in the para helmets until it ran out and was replaced by rubber-coated horse-hair and synthetic rubber.

Regards,
Steve


F.Y.I. the above helmet has rubber-coated horse-hair pads.

[force136]

Para Helmets

Hi Guys,

Yes Steve, this helmet should have rubber coated fiber pads. However you got it backwards. The yellow came after, not before, sometime during the revised change from impregnated fibre rubber band to all steel on the MKI. The use of all rubber and fibre inserts also has alot to do with size. I have a document stating that the later MK II web strap helmet predominently but not exclusively has all rubber due to the fact that they were mostly made in large sizes so less rubber padding was used. Also , I dont know what the RAF would be using foam rubber for????

Anyway I am hoping to have this book out this year. It will be distributed in Canada via Vanwell Publishing. It also has an in-depth history which in many ways rewrites the early history of the Battalion. Something new for those tired of reading the same old history beaten to death. All based on Archival documents, veteran accounts etc. It also covers in-depth US parachutist clothing as well as British. In addition items contracted in Canada. The only thing I do not cover is webbing, the uniforms and insignia sections along with the history were large enough.

Thanks

Ken

PS I will be publishing a History of the 1st Special Service Force in June 2005. A separate book will be made coveirng in detail uniforms and insignia. This will also be available through Vanwell.

Thank you Ken, good info.
I too have found out more since I posted the question. The yellow rubber came about when supplies of natural rubber became critical. A supply of rubber was found (via the RAF) , but it was yellow ! This was used in the para helmets until it ran out and was replaced by rubber-coated horse-hair and synthetic rubber.

Regards,
Steve


F.Y.I. the above helmet has rubber-coated horse-hair pads.