Transitional 2nd Pattern FS Fighting Knife

[britpc]

Hi Ade & jack,
Thanks for your comments. Jack....Who mentioned Ebay
Regards
Irv

Thanks for showing us these excellent knives

It just goes to show that eBay does turn up some real treasures from time to time!

Thanks, from Jack.

[lnijherald]

Fantastic pieces there Irv, thanks for posting the pictures!

The 2nd pattern was definately made by Wilkinson, and I'm told knives that "B2" marked were too.
Could you do me a favour and compare the clamp marks on both pommel nuts to see if they are identical?
Thanks, Luc

[britpc]

Hi Luc,
This is spooky I had just logged on to say that in my opinion this 2nd Pattern was made by Wilkinson Sword. Not because the clamp marks are the same (which they are not), but because WS were the only makers of the 1st patt. This knife has a flattened 'S' cross guard and also came with a 1st Patt scabbard, small acorn nut (all traits of WS 1st Patt knives). The grip is also the ruff chequered type which you tend to see on 1st patts.
I have a number of WS made knives and not all have the same clamp marks. As to whether /I\B2 marked knives were made by WS I don't think they were, but that is my opinion only. Who knows??
Relying on the clamp mark only as a way of telling if it is made by WS would not be a good idea. The quality of some of the different FS cutlers work is as good as WS. And whos to say that they didn't get their clamps from the same supplier??
It is believed that these nickle 2nd Patts were only made for a short time up until they started to blue them. I wonder if all the nickle knives were made by WS during this short period of time or if they also went out to contract to other cutlers Nickle 2nd Patts are also seen with /I\56 and /I\21 markings on the crossguard, but it is still debated asto whether these marks relate to a specific manufacturer of just an inspector (quality control).
Regards
Irv

Fantastic pieces there Irv, thanks for posting the pictures!

The 2nd pattern was definately made by Wilkinson, and I'm told knives that "B2" marked were too.
Could you do me a favour and compare the clamp marks on both pommel nuts to see if they are identical?
Thanks, Luc

[lnijherald]

Hi Irv,

I found the "B2" story in several collector's guides but if your WS knives have different marks I'm starting to believe it is just a myth.
I recently bought a copy of "the broad arrow" by Skennerton to find out more about such stampings, unfortunately no info.
According to my info the majority but not all nickeled knives were made by WS, indeed only for a short period of time. Later they were blued or chemically blackened, or even painted black.
Weather the stampings mean a manufacturer or an inspector we will probably never known; part of WS's archive was destructed during the war by bombings.
I have heard that "56" knives were used by Frost's men during the Bruneval raid; it seems to me that the entire unit was supplied from a single batch of knives all with the same stampings.
Cheers, Luc
B*gger, it would have been nice to find out that my "B2" stamped 2nd pattern knife was in fact made by WS!

[britpc]

I have always wondered why WS didn't etch all their knives? I have nickle 2nd patts that are etched and others which are not. If this one can be put down as a WS manufacture, and that it isn't marked in any way, how many of the other none marked nickle knives are WS also?

I will try and take some pictures of clamp marks and nuts. I have one of those rare breed of knife, the 3rd patt WS etched blade! Compare this to a /I\B2 marked and you will see what I mean. If they were supposed to have both been made by WS you would think that they would match in a number of ways? But they don't. Fingers crossed that I can do it tonight.
Irv

[britpc]

I think I managed to get most of the pictures in focus

First is a picture of the three knives. One is a 3rd Pattern WS etched and the other two, another 3rd Patt and a 2nd Patt are both marked with the /I\ B2.

[britpc]

WS 3rd patt 1

[britpc]

WS 3rd patt 2

[britpc]

2nd Patt B2 1

[britpc]

2nd Patt B2 2

[britpc]

2nd Patt B2 3

[britpc]

3rd Patt B2 1

[britpc]

3rd Patt B2 2

[britpc]

3rd Patt B2 3

[britpc]

I'm sorry if some aren't in focus but that was hard work Hold the knife and keep the camera still.

I hope that they are clear enough to make my point. I have other WS marked knives and they are different as well. How the story of the B2 being WS made I don't know, but I'm sure that money came into it somewhere
All the best
Irv