eBay Auction: Major Shaw - 2nd Punjab Regt

[John F.]

Anyone see that grouping belong to a Major James A. Shaw of the 2nd Punjab Regiment of the Army of India on eBay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...282940147&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...283742208&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...939328953&rd=1

Not only is his stuff up for auction but three generations of his family history. The seller has broken up into eight different auctions; Major Shaw's stuff, his fathers and his great grandfathers items. The auctions range from: medal bars, battle dress jacket, beret, sword, swagger stick, greatcoat and others. The seller stands to make a small fortune. Seeing this happen makes me ill.

Check out the "veiw sellers other items" for the rest of the auctions.


John

[Anthony Grisanti]

Hey John,
I'm in full agreement. I wonder if the medals were not mounted if we'd see them individually for sale. I can understand selling a group...but to dismantle a group into many groups and singles...especially 3 generations...despicable. I mentioned it to some friends of mine here who are not collectors or have any knowledge of it, even they thought it was terrible to split a family's history like that let alone one man just for a profit. I supose that's why we are here, to try and safeguard what we can...
Tony

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Yes, I can only agree. It is a real shame that the seller has broken up this wonderful lot. I put it down to A) Desire for the highest amount of money and, B) Not all collectors want the whole lot they only want certain pieces!

Remember, a medal collector will most likely not want his blouse or beret and will pay much more for the medals than a collector who wanted to keep it all together.

If I had loads of spare cash I'd attempt to keep it together.

[ROBB]

Cant blame him really .I'm not a medal man ,but I would take the beret and blouse ,all the items come with a well documented history of the guy ,so they will always be associated with the original owner .Rob.

[SHEARING-CROSS]

HI THERE ,
i agree with a lot of your comments but i think its important to be realistic here ,
yes ,its a shame the group is getting split up ,the chances of it being returns as one lot in the future are i supose nil , selling the beret from the B.D is a bit naughty , but as for his fathers medals or even the sons medals i think that is a different matter .
most collectors have only a limited amount of cash to spend, as a collector of british uniforms ,i would have no interest in his fathers medals or maybe even the sons grouping ,i agree seperating a large group up is often motivated by desire to seek the most profit
but lets be honest here guys
if this lot had come up at a UK auction house as one lot and were taking about a lot of cash here my only option to afford this would be to buy the whole group take out the airborne items for my own collection and then re sell the first war medal group to make back a bit of cash ,
am i supposed to turn down a very nice uniform that would be a centre piece of my display because the medal groups are of no interest ??

I.M.O ,with out trying to be out spoken ,the collectors that has bought a group of medals , badges whatever and not sold off things that were of no interest or not in their collecting area are very `thin on the ground `
A COUPLE OF POINTS ,
If you collect, lets say british secondwar medals and you find out that your local auction house /house clearance firm has in its next auction
a nice set of stars with a named medal ( MM ? ) as part of the group to a good line regt that served Africa / Italy and finished up in Austria in 1946 ,now this group is `bang on ` in near mint condition ,still boxed in an old tin with photos documents , capbadge a few div signs ,
you get the picture ? now this group just happens to be to the regt / theatre , you collect to and you end up paying a hefty price for it , is it
time to start banging in the overtime at work coz christmas is just over the hill ??
or ..... or what about this ,
in the tin with the nice medal group there is a few german badges Africa corps bits , german photos a pass book ,maybe even a cuft title ,all bits that the veteran picked up ,yes nice to keep as part of the medal group but , as much as you try to convince your self your interested in the bits the fact is your not.....
and you know you can sell the german bits for a good price which will mean that you have payed very little for the medal group .
Again i would like you to consider this ,
you are a collector of german africa corps items and a guy you know bought a box of british medals with a few nice africa items in it , he does note rate the german badges one bit but will not sell to you coz he claims they are all one lot ?? .
i am sure every one of us knows a collector out there who has a very nice ,rare ? item from a collecting area far removed from his chosen field but hangs onto it because he payed `sod all ` for it and gets a hell of a sadistic pleasure knowing guys out there would die to own it ????
ok my example is perhaps not the same as seperating a medal group from the winners uniform but it is still a valid point ( i think )
it must happen every day in the german collecting area when a house clearance in germany brings up a nice lot of second war items but in the same box a good pile of his fathers imperial / great war items ,yes a crime and a bloody shame to split them AFTER you have bought them but .....and again the same point , what if you only collect imperial items and not nazi badges and need to make back some cash ,not just for profit but to off set the large amount you layed out in the first place to buy the group .
regards Michael.
P.S if your a millionaire ,please ignore my comments

[David C]

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No comment.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi John, thanks for posting the links and bringing this group to our attention. It looks like it will all go through the roof, so the seller has got his wish to make the maximum amount of money by splitting it all up

I can see the point Micheal is making in his post. This type of reasoning has been put forwards on the forum in the past with various German groups that have been split. Personally I fall into the "thin on the ground" group of collectors. I have never sold off a single item from a group and never will. Indeed I have bought a group which was really outside of my collecting interests just to prevent it being split! I have featured it here, it was a WW2 group to a chap in the Northants Regt.

Like Jack and Robb, if I had the money, I would bid on the uniform items to try and keep them together.

Cheers, Ade.

[John F.]

What Happen to the Shaw Family?

I agree with what everyone has said about colleting interests, and I definitely understand the motive of the seller for breaking it up. All I am saying is that it is sad to see three generations of family history being parceled out on eBay. It kind of makes you think what happen to this family? Was there no one left like a great, great nephew or grandson to inherit this family history instead of selling it to a dealer or did the bloodline simply run out?

John

[SHEARING-CROSS]

Hiya JOHN ,
I completely agree with what you say ,
but i think as collectors we look at this situation from our own collecting view point , some relatives do not give a sod about what grandad did in the war
` more fool him for going ` seems to be the opinion , having helped a pal run a militaria market stall for a good few years now i have seen people try to sell medal groups /uniforms that belonged to a very close relative , reason being they need the deposit for a new car , or the gas bill is due , the fact is they just have no interest at all in grandads M.M etc all they see is pound signs .
regards ,Michael.

I agree with what everyone has said about colleting interests, and I definitely understand the motive of the seller for breaking it up. All I am saying is that it is sad to see three generations of family history being parceled out on eBay. It kind of makes you think what happen to this family? Was there no one left like a great, great nephew or grandson to inherit this family history instead of selling it to a dealer or did the bloodline simply run out?

John

[Si1964]

i have seen people try to sell medal groups /uniforms that belonged to a very close relative , reason being they need the deposit for a new car , or the gas bill is due

I had a Falklands mate sell his medals when times where hard, not that he really wanted too but when times are hard.... I didn't know he was doing it at the time otherwise I would have stopped him. I bought some stuff off of him and gave it back a couple of years ago for his son.

Back to the actual topic, I would have thought that this was most likely picked up in a house clearance. As it is a fantastic collection to be split . Having been on to ebay, does anyone have any idea of the value of the para related items? How rare are these India related things?

[SHEARING-CROSS]

Hiya , YEP ...fully understand and respect your comments , many former soldiers fall on hard times and have to sell their medals to pay bills ,
MARINE SPARKS ,one of the two survivors of the COCKLESHELL HEROES had to do this as the UK goverment F **KED him over ,with his pension .
The B.D in question ,which is bang on to the area i collect to , i am a bit confused / worried over , the formation signs stitched on the wrong way is a big alarm bell , yes this may be a war time tactical reason that i am not aware of , i am only learning but the medal ribbons, BURMA before the ITALY star that is very worrying ?? as i have said in previous threads , as a collector of airborne items i am big lover of the unusual , items ,insignia that do not comform to the norm ,dress regulations ,wings stitched on the wrong side etc but div signs on the wrong way ..... very scary !! t i think this BD is perhaps o,k and does belongs to the soldier that is named but i suspect may be the signs were removed at some time possibly on joining another unit and some one has removed the other unit signs and replaced the Airborne ones that he wore in the past to make it more sexy ?? only they are added the wrong way round
i would love to own this B.D and no doubt it 100 % correct and it is obvious the dealer has genuinly located a big lot of items from the relatives , but i as a collector would not be happy with it, it will no doubt reach the $1000.0 mark which is dead right for a genuine rare item ..
regards ,Michael.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Michael, to tell you the truth I never even noticed the Pegasus were sewn on back to front Indian Airborne stuff has really come of age this past few years as at one time it was not nearly as sought after as British A/B items proper.


Cheers, Ade.

[Si1964]

Michael

Now that you come to mention, yes they are aren't they. Also it looks as if his ribbons have been put back on a later date too. I see both this and the beret are both getting a nice price.

[SHEARING-CROSS]

Hiya ADE , ( GOOD MORNING )
INDIAN AIRBORNE items were never as collectable as the more sexy E.T.O divisions may be coz they never served as a division in combat but this has changed big style over the last few years , the interest is more to do with the units that joined the div , many chindits and other good line regiments became part of their ortbat , very best wishes Michael.

Hi Michael, to tell you the truth I never even noticed the Pegasus were sewn on back to front Indian Airborne stuff has really come of age this past few years as at one time it was not nearly as sought after as British A/B items proper.


Cheers, Ade.