Making Up WW2 Medal Groups - Right or Wrong?

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It has come to attention that it has now become common place to 'make up' WW2 medal groups. No one in the medal collecting fraternity appears to bat so much as an eye lid at what is now a such a common and accepted practice.

What I mean by this is to take a single named decoration and then bolt on a few stars, a War or Defence medal to complete the entitlement. In some instances you dont even need a single named medal just a pay book! And why not for the hell of it mount the lot up court style for a little authenticity?

The obvious motivation is to complete the group, but the other is to dramatically increase the value of that particular single decoration or item of paper work.Personally I feel frustrated that many dealers are resorting to this to make a fast buck.

One prime example is the GSM bar Palestine 45-48 to the Army Air Corps. I have seen a number of these on online dealers lists........imagine how I felt when I saw the same medal again at a fair this time with a few friends sitting in front of it! The crazy thing is there is actually no way to establish if that man is entitled to those medals unless you have access to regimental records which have yet to be released to the public.........Ok so a dealer would get away with it if there were some supporting orginal paper work relating to the medals awarded but it this is so often not the case.

I would be very interested to hear all forum members opinions on this.

Steve.

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I heard a rumour a few years ago that you would lose your OMRS membership if you were caught doing this.......is that out the window now?

Steve.

[Adam H]

Steve,

This is an interesting topic over which I am sure there will be some debate. I've not been a member of the OMRS for some time now so cannot say whether or not they excommunicate you for dodgy practices like this, but it wouldn't really surpise me if this were the case.

I'm a bit torn because I don't see the issue as clearly black or white, at least in some instances. We all know that medal groups get split up over the course of time for innumerable reasons...sometimes by family, sometimes by collectors, sometimes, especially in the past, by dealers.

I personally have in my collection a handful of groups that I have "put together", however, I have of course never added a gong to which the recipient was not entitled. A couple of examples:

I have obtained at different times, Efficiency Medals named to members of my regiment. I have quite a lot of reference material on the subject and through research I have been able to determine the full medal entitlement. Usually these amount to WWII medals and/or WWII Stars. Since the recipient would have been entitled to wear these additional medals, and because they were issued unnamed I personally see no great harm in "completing" or "restoring" the group in this instance.

I have done similarly with Canadian Memorial Crosses (WWII Issues only) and display the Memorial Cross with the WWII Medals and Stars the recipient would have also been awarded.

Another senario that you mention, when unnamed medals are "married" to original documents...this is where I begin to have a problem with this practice. Many WWII groups to British/Canadian/NZ etc recipients consist entirely unnamed medals. This presents a problem. Where do we draw the line? Personally, for me there would have to be significant original paperwork and ephemera for me to attribute any additional value beyond "break up" price for a set of medals like this... otherwise it is rather easy for a seller to divide up some original docs and items and make up 2 (or more!) groups to the same individual...now if he was a private in the RASC...well probably not much monetary incentive...but when we start talking about casualties or highly sought after units....

Lastly the practice of simply adding some medals to one named medal. Without documentation of entitlement this is plain dishonest and wrong. I don't think the majority of the bigger dealers out there would do this lest they have complaints and returns once the buyer does some research on his own.

There is also the scenario where 2 or more named medals are separated and unnamed medals added to make multiple groups to the same recipient, again wrong and dishonest IMO.

Well...I really need to stop typing because I've been up all night writing a paper and I'm probably not making very much sense at this point. Hopefully some of my above thoughts are at least somewhat coherent. If not I apologize and will come back and edit it once I get some rack time.



Cheers,

Adam

[leigh kitchen]

It was inevitable - it's been going on for years but has picked up speed more recently with the increased research tools available & more interest due to values, advent of e-bay etc.
I know of one collector who collected WWI pairs etc & displayed them with a cap badge & a photo of a soldier of the unit concerned. No obvious intent to deceive, but they were sold off to a dealer, still mated up.
I'm very suspicious of things like unmounted & unnamed WWII groups with a photo & a cap badge when they turn up, perhaps with a cloth patch as well - & more so when they're attributed to casualties.
Why do there seem to be so many dead blokes medals accompanied by his cap badge around? Did they all leave a cap badge with next of kin?
I prefer a bit more provenance, but then a Soldiers Book & a couple of letters or attributable bits of paperwork don't necessarily guarantee autnenticity.
Getting more & more like the German situation, the document has a value which perhaps outstrips the value of the medal which has a seperate value & the two combined don't add to the overall monetary value. With the Brit stuff you tend to get a Soldier Book as the only documentation with medals, they don't come along with award certificates & the like usually, so unlike German stuff you can't at least check the Wherpas or whatever as an indication that the guy was actually entitled to the medals.
The Brit WWII stuff is a bugger in that there's usually no obvious way of checking the history of the man whose Soldiers Book & medals you've got - was he at Dunkirk, Arnhem, El Alamein or whatever or did he stay tucked out of the way in the relevant theatre. You normally have to work to find out what regiment he was in, let alone which battalion & which actions, usually you have'nt got much hope with those.
So, what's worth more - a couple of Stars with a Para Regt badge & photo of a Para, or the same Stars with a ACC badge & photo? Worth about the same to me unless there's a bit more paperwork or info involved.
Medal stripping is very naughty & so's slinging in a photo or pay book in order to "promote" a group from that of an excused boots slop jockey based at the Aldershot Concrete Company's HQ throughout the war to that of a Para killed at Arnhem.
Bad, Bad.

[yellow]

Many thanks for your input Adam. You raise some interesting points.

I know of one chap who is a collector of the Lincolns who owns a GVI E.M. group that he has made up, whilst another collector owns the WW2 medals in box of issue to the same man. As these medals have a rather interesting story and both of these gentleman collect to the same theme neither will part with their half! My point being....you just dont know if those WW2 gongs were claimed or if they are out in there in another collectors hands? It could be that with just a single E.M. you own the all the medals that, that particular man ever owned? Its far from being cut and dry.

Thats what is so special about Canadian WW2 groups....so easy to research in regards to WW2 entitlement.....service papers are available. I`ll probably be in an old peoples home and supping on Complan when the Brit Service papers are released!

Steve.

[NavyFCO]

This is one of those interesting "ethical" debates... The first time I ever saw the adding of medals was with a certain major dealer (still in business and still with a top reputation) noted in fine print in the front page of their cataloge that they would replace missing medals that the recipient was entitled to in a group - without noting the addition it in the description. This disclaimer basically meant that the dealer had free reign to add any unnamed award or medal to a group that the person was entitled to, in order to complete the group. Thus, the dealer added whatever award the group was missing - whether it be a DSO, MC, campaign star, or the like... The reason I never bought from this particular dealer (first, while I was collecting British medals, and later US award) was this policy. Imagine if he got one named medal to say, a US general, he felt that he could legitimately add the rest of the awards to the group - and then charge a couple of grand for an "attributed" group that may have only cost him a couple hundred dollars to build! Did the dealer ever lose his OMSA membership? Nope. I think he has a life membership now! Go figure... I guess it just depends on your perspective and ethics.

--Dave

[Anthony Grisanti]

I agree with Dave...for me it boils down to an ethics isssue. Personally, I have no issue with recreating a legit group...preferrably with period pieces. I did that with my grandfather's BUT for my own collection and display. I think if you are displaying for honorable purposes no issue. I'm not a fan of sellers recreating a group even if they are all entitled awards...reason...they are not the awards issued to whomever...they are the awards they were entitled to...but for me they are NOT that person's awards (being his or her awarded medals). I know it's semantics but it's how I try to approach the topic when I encounter them.

My $.02........Tony

[Tony Farrell]

I know of one chap who is a collector of the Lincolns who owns a GVI E.M. group that he has made up, whilst another collector owns the WW2 medals in box of issue to the same man. As these medals have a rather interesting story and both of these gentleman collect to the same theme neither will part with their half!

That's just plain silly. Any collector that would knowingly prevent a group being reunited (for whatever bloody-minded reason) needs his arse kicking! As for the ethics already mentioned? I don't collect unnamed WWII groups so it doesn't really effect me. A cop out reply I know, but only the collector can determine the market. Don't buy 'em!

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Very interesting thread Steve

Personally, I am totally against making up any kind of WW2 medal group even if it is only replacing a campaign star. The fact of the matter is that a replacement medal almost certainly will not be the actual medal originally issued to the recipient. For me, if I had a nice group and this was the case, I wouldn't be able to sleep properly at night!

I think this is far by the worst - some sellers have a habit of selling a group, lets say consisting of all un-named medals, with a bit of dodgy paper work with something to the effect of J. Smith, Army Air Corps. And well, you know the outcome!

Many thanks, from Jack.

[Gary Jucha]

Unfortunately common

It's not just medal groups that get doctored .....
From the Polish collecting front, I Could name quite a few people who have married geniune photo's with suspect medals and suspect battledress jackets to try and enhance the open market price.
This type of practice may be of profit to the individual, but in the fullness of time, completely undermines the whole ethic of collecting.

I find this practice foolish and historically destructive !!!!

Gary J.