My First WW2 Medal Bar...

[MerchantSeaman]

Well its certainly a pre-war or early wartime number, the late wartime numbers were mostly 14------- no matter what unit or corps a chap was joining, see one or two of them below.


Had a root around in the cemetery registers for Israel and:

Ramleh War Cemetery

6085989 Sgt Wilfrid Dale, 1st Bn Queens, 7 Mar 46, age 36.
6078081 Cpl Norman W Hale, 2nd Queens, 7 Feb 41, age 47.
6103241 Pte Ernest Hibberd, 2nd Queens, 22 Dec 41, age 30.
6085206 Pte Gwyn H Hughes, 2nd Queens, 24 Dec 39, age 26.
Lieut Roy Jenkins, The Buffs att'd Queens, 25 Aug 42, age 28.
6091561 Pte William C Ockwell, 1/5 Queens, 3 Jan 43, age 30.

and then just to muddy the waters --

14651533 Pte Georgious Theofanous, 2/6 East Surreys, 6 Oct 45, age 20.

Khayat Beach War Cemetery

14886861 Pte W G Brooks, East Surreys, 20 Oct 47.
14139472 Pte N E Crisp, East Surreys, 11 Jan 47, age 19.
Lieut Anthony AP Elliott, 2nd East Surreys, 2 Jan 47, age 21.
6476164 L/Cpl Walter J Wright, 1/6 Queens, 7 Aug 45, age 34.

So guys, I dont know what conclusions a military specialist might reach (I am not one) but it looks to me as if 2nd Queens were in Palestine 1939/42 and some elements of 1st Bn were there postwar with elements of 1/6th.

Obviously 2nd East Surreys were engaged there in 1947.

What do you reckon

[Greeves]

Wow, you've got great resources Pete! I'm building mine up, but you just seem to have every type of information at hand - wonderful.

Well, I'm starting to think, based on Pete's and Adam's information, that I need to completely forget about Finch being in The Queen's. The regimental naming of all medals that I own to the regiment contain either "Queen's" or "Royal" in the naming. I don't see why things would be different for the GSM. I do realize that this is 30 years after my WW1 gongs, but I've never seen Queen's medals named to just the "Surreys". The only way to be sure, however, is to see a GSM named to an East Surrey man. I've already mentioned that the 2nd Queen's, or at least some members, were in Palestine post-war, but I only have proof of one - and his medal has been stolen from the museum so I can't exactly ask them for the naming details...

Based on all this - and his regimental number - I think Cpl Finch served in Burma with the Royal Sussex Regiment and then when he re-enlisted for his short-term engagement post-war, he joined the East Surrey Regiment and was sent to Palestine.

Sound plausible gents?

[MerchantSeaman]

Just to further enable the theorists -


Liverpool Coin & Medal Co as they were back then, in their List No.17 of May 1980 had amongst the wonderful things

No. 202 GSM Palestine 1945/48 named Pte J Sinclair SURREYS.



also had a Royal Warwicks DSO & Bar group at £699. and an MC&Bar group at £475 and a OBE/MC group £199 and a RN Div DCM at £499 and a 50th Can Inf DCM at £149 and Geo.V MM's at £38 to £49 for singles, an RFC MSM massive group at £399, why didnt I............. when I had the chance

[Greeves]

also had a Royal Warwicks DSO & Bar group at £699. and an MC&Bar group at £475 and a OBE/MC group £199 and a RN Div DCM at £499 and a 50th Can Inf DCM at £149 and Geo.V MM's at £38 to £49 for singles, an RFC MSM massive group at £399, why didnt I............. when I had the chance

Is that really necessary, Pete?!? I'm trying to eat lunch...

[MerchantSeaman]

Yeah, I read the first nine pages of the catalogue and wanted just about every item and when you think about how soft in the head I was not to buy more when I had the chance, but then I guess I had less dough available back then, kids n'mortgage n'stuff

[Greeves]

Interesting group in an auction catalogue that I've just received:

39/45, Africa, Italy Stars; Def Medal; War Medal; and GSM (GVI) with clasp Palestine to 6087755 Pte B Bourner, The Queen's Regiment.

I'll be putting a bid in on it - I'm curious as to the naming so I'm going to email the auctioneer - this might help solve the mystery! (It also shows that members of the Queen's were in Palestine - but the unit doesn't make the orbat...I'm definitely thinking attachments now).

[Adam H]

Geoff,

Is this the "Palestine" clasp...or the "Palestine 1945-48" clasp...? Just wondering...since the "Palestine" GSM would technically be worn before the WWII gongs.... Were the Queen's in Africa in WWII?

Cheers,

Adam

[Greeves]

Interesting question, Adam, and one I've asked the dealer. The listing just says "Palestine" so I think you may be right. The 2nd Battalion was in Palestine just before and at the outbreak of the second war. The 2nd then moved to Egypt and fought at Sidi Barrani and Tobruk before being moved to Burma. Also, all 6 Territorial battalions (formed into 2 brigades) fought as part of the 8th Army and then through the Italian campaign. Perhaps this chap served with the 2nd Battalion as a prewar regular and then was transferred to one of the peacetime territorial battalions during the war? Interesting possibilities with this one too...