Knuckle duster Knife

[JamesT]

Gentlemen

Is this the real thing or just a tourist fantasy

Many thanks

James

[JamesT]

based on a Wilkinson bayonet cut down

[peter monahan]

Hard to say for sure: it looks as if it could have been knocked up by a bored Tommy somewhere though not, I'm sure, by anyone who had an knife fighting experience.

It is sufficiently odd that I'm tempted to call it genuine because I'd think a souvenir maker would bother starting with a Lee Enfield bayonet and doing all that grinding work! It's also not so very 'sexy' as to be all that saleable, except to the sort of people [like me] who hang about forums like this one!

So, I'd say on balance, probably not a souvenir piece. My tuppence worth.
Peter

[dragnet]

Looks good IMO. I pressume you can get your fingers in there quickly??

[Infanteer]

Is it real? In what sense? It's certainly not an issue item if that's what you are asking. Or are you asking if it's an item that was assembled/modified during the war in an unofficial way? It's definitely unofficial, but when it was done is the real question I suppose. It doesn't appear to have any real age to the modified parts so it's a tough call although I'm inclined to think that it's a post war project by someone in their garage. For me, the quality of the workmanship, fit and finish just are not there for an official type knife. That being said, there have been some very crude legitimate items produced during the war but they are really the exception rather then the rule.

[Seigfried]

It's obviously a ground down 1907 SMLE Bayonet and reminds me of the types of weapon that the Home Guard would make (pikes etc).

It may even be WW1 era - a trench knife made in the field by the armourer.

I reckon it's period done at any rate. Would like to see what Ade makes of it.

[Military Antiques Toronto]

Whatever it is, its really cool!

Dave.

[JamesT]

By "real" I mean produced by a field workshop or similar during WW1 as a trench fighting knife rather than as a tourist fantasy. I must say I hadn't thought of the WW2 home guard suggestion.

I have attached some more photos. It is very solidly made and I'm pretty impressed by the amount of fiddly work that must have been involved in cutting down the scabbard. It looks like a pretty professional job.

Thanks for your comments gentlemen. It is headed for the For Sale Table so if you are interested ...........

All the best

James

[JamesT]

And a couple more pics

Do the armourers marks on the blade tell us anything?

All the best

James

[Infanteer]

So, is that guard removable? It looks like it might be. Pretty cool idea if it is. I really like the idea but it just doesn't look professionally done to me. The blade has been shortened rather crudely and the spikes are not uniform and appear to have been done on a grinder. It could have been done in the field I suppose but it really doesn't appear to have the age of a WW1 item. If anything the idea of it being a WW2 home guard item would be a more likely possibility.

[pzrwest]

I was going to ask the same thing about the guard being removable. To me it looks like someone cobbled this together, and not for me. But that is just my opinion

[Seigfried]

It could have been done in the field I suppose but it really doesn't appear to have the age of a WW1 item.

It is a WW1 bayonet - how can it not appear to have the 'age'! Or do you mean the modification?

I am speculating that the bayonet was broken somehow (bayonet fighting, mine prodding - who knows) and rather than throwing the remnant away the battalion armourer made this in the field.

I cannot imagine that anybody today would take a genuine WW1 bayonet and scabbard (approx value £70.00) and go to all this trouble - ruining it and diminishing the value in the process.

[Infanteer]

It is a WW1 bayonet - how can it not appear to have the 'age'! Or do you mean the modification?

I cannot imagine that anybody today would take a genuine WW1 bayonet and scabbard (approx value £70.00) and go to all this trouble - ruining it and diminishing the value in the process.

Yes, of course I'm talking about the modification.

Don't get hung up on the value of the item. Who knows when this was done... perhaps at a time when the bayonets were cheap and plentiful. And besides, you're thinking like a collector and not everyone places the same value on these items that a collector would. I mean I still hear stories about people throwing this stuff in the trash because they couldn't imagine that someone would want it. I'm not saying that this isn't legitimate but it could have just as easily been done by someone who wanted a cool looking fighting knife and didn't have a clue what the collectible value of the bayonet was. For me, this argument simply doesn't prove anything one way or the other.

[JamesT]

Gentlemen

Several of you asked if the guard is removable. It turns out is is. A very neatly done job. It is interesting that the knuckle duster bit is obviously made by a craftsman with access to a lathe and other metal working tools, as well as what ever process is used to "blue" the metal. Yet the blade has been roughly ground down on a grinding stone.

I don't suppose we shall ever know if it is WW1 or WW2. I tend to lean towards WW1 when there was a lot of equipment floating about in the front line areas and many field workshops and so on with all the right equipment. Add to this an enterprising armourer and I'm sure all sorts of useful items were turned out.

Interesting that this little knife has caused such a lively debate. Anyway this is for sale if anyone is interested.

Thanks gentlemen for all of your comments

All the best

James