Norfolk Uniform grouping 1900

[paddle]

I have my great grandfather, John William Paddle's uniform set.

There is a note with it saying "4 V Norfolk Artillery Band uniform 1900"
I do not know if that information (Artillery Band) is correct. Can anyone
help with info on this regiment and this uniform?

I hope these pics work now.

John

[paddle]

pics (?)

more ....

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi John, welcome to the forum!

This is a very nice family group. I know very little about pre 1914 uniforms, but I am sure some of the members here will be able to answer all your questions.

Cheers, Ade.

[Guy]

Hi John,

That is a really attractive group. I love the blue cloth helmet, is the maker called stone's by any chance? I am afraid I am in the same boat as Ade when it comes to this one as it is a bit out of my period. A good friend of mine is something of an authority on victorian/Edwardian Norfolks kit and he returns from Canada this week. I shall ask him to comment if no one else has.

Yours, Guy.

[paddle]

makers info

Thanks for your comments Gentlemen.
Guy, I would love to hear any info your friend may have. Any idea of the rank?
I am unsure of the proper setup for the "chinstrap" and what goes in the
hook at the back of the spike?

The helmet maker's tag is...
SAMUEL BROTHERS . LUDGATE HILL LONDON .

"Samuel Brothers, Ludgate Hill, outfillers and tailors" west of St. Paul's
Cathedral is the only info I could find on the 'net.

Btw, I don't know if the spats and boot stretchers are issue items. They
were all together with the uniform when it was given to me. There is also
a black cummerbund and the pocket knife shown.
The black leather straps on the spurs were made by me and are not original.

As you can see there are 2 different tunics. The 2 V Battalion one is quite
dirty with black dirt and has had some insignia removed.

Here is the maker's tag from the 4 V battalion jacket.

John

[Jim Maclean]

John,

Congratulations on some great pieces of history. Volunteer militaria is not a strong point, mainly due to the lack of it turning up and the lack of good reference material available. I have one book that I have a look at when I need to but haven't really read cover to cover and digested.

The 4 V Norfolk jacket I would imagine to be post 1881 Cardwell reforms, the 2 V jacket pre this time as the buttons are Rifle Volunteers.

I can't see any evidence as to band and know of no connection to artillery.

As to the hook behind the spike, undo the chinstay from the wearer's right hand boss, drape it across the peak and fasten the last loop over the hook. This is presumably how it was worn on non windy days.

I'll keep at the book and if I find out anything I'll let you know. Meanwhile hope someone else can do better.

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Hello John!

That is one hell of a nice family group you have there

I cannot really help you but...you know the "Italian Pattern" waterbottle is worth at least £250 on its own

A warm welcome...from Jack

[Tony Farrell]

The tunics are both post-Cardwell: 2nd & 4th Volunteer Bns. Norfolks. The bugle badges are either a battalion affectation (like the 4th's thread colouring), or most likely using up stocks, as was usually the case. A very nice set indeed - and family too! You lucky, lucky ****ard!

[paddle]

new pic

Here is a picture of my gr. grandfather taken quite a few years after his time in the regiment. I am guessing because of the truck and I think this picture was taken in Canada. He emigrated sometime around 1900.

Any idea of the rank? Are the stirrups and spurs issue items?

Jim M. - note the chainstay. Isn't this opposite of how you described?
Thanks everyone for your infomation and comments.

John P.

[Jim Maclean]

John,

Yes it does appear to be opposite to my description. I've only ever until now that is, seen it as illustrated below.

Jim

[paddle]

Here is another helmet set up the way you describe.

There are nice pics on this site.
http://www.britishempire.co.uk

I'll set it up this way.
John

[paddle]

Questions

Can anyone tell me if the cloak, spats, spurs, stirrups and boot stretchers are part of the uniform or army issue items?

John

[paddle]

Finally found a nice display body for this set.
I made the helmet support myself, I'm thinking that it would be less noticeable if it were painted black.
Any ideas?
JP

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[Jim Maclean]

Well that didn't take long did it?

I think it looks great, you might want to try putting some of that water pipe insulation over the tube to thicken it up with very little extra weight. I also hope the top of the tube has something to spread the weight, I'd hate to see a lovely helmet spoilt.

[Patrick Dempsey]

Well,

i had managed to miss this thread first time around, but i am glad i have stumbled across it this time.

What an abolute gem of a grouping. The fact that is belonged to your Great-Grandfather is just the icing on the cake.

i would be inclined to have the helmet displayed alongside the tunic on its own dedicated stand with the 'hole' at the neck/top of the tunic covered perhaps with a piece of black/dark material.

You may wish to consider have a quality scan of the photograph made and an enlargement printed from it, frame it and display it proudly next to the tunic ensemble.

Just magnificent.