Royal West Kents Type Badge - Which Unit Is IT?

[leigh kitchen]

This badge is identical to that of the West Kents, other than that it lacks the 3 part name scroll under the "INVICTA" scroll.
It's not the West Kent Yeomanry badge as theirs was slightly larger, had a daintier horse with a short mane, & the Invicta scroll was in block capitals rather than Old English lettering.
I have got a 20th County of London (Blackheath & Woolwich) badge which is identical to this (other than minor manufacturerers variations) & has the 20th London's name scroll struck seperately & in a slightly different coloured white metal, & attached rather than being a one-piece striking.
Perhaps an enterprising corner cutting manufacturer ran off some of these for the West Kent Yeomanry, hoping that nobody would notice the difference?
I have heard the opinion expressed that it may be a Kent police badge?

[Jim Maclean]

Didn't Kent Police wear collar badges? Serious question though aren't police badges chromed? I've no experience of them.
Chuchill's collar badges show a very similar badge as the Buffs collar badge but with Roman lettering (78&83) He also shows another very similar badge under the 20th Bn London Regt with old English lettering, he discounts this as being a variation on the Buffs(1985). The main difference in all cases is that the scroll has a slightly sharper dip.

[leigh kitchen]

This one's definitely a headress badge, it has a slider.
Police badges were in white metal at one time, although at least some had changed to chrome before the St Edward's Crown came in.
This one really is the same as the West Kents & the 20th Londons, the lettering, style of horse etc, it's basically their badge but with no additional scroll.
As I said, I've got a 20th London which is in effect this badge but with tye additional scroll attached (as well as one struck as one piece).
I wonder if a particular manufacturer produced West Kent & 20th London badges as 2-piecers, making the horse & invicta scroll as one piece & then making the regimental scrolls seperately & attaching them. Does'nt seem much point as he'd need 3 dies instead of 2.
No sign of anything being broken off this particular badge.
By Buffs do you mean the Queens Own Buffs - the amalgamated West Kents & East Kents?
The 2 regiments were in the Home Counties Bde when they were amalgamated, but regiments within the brigade wore their own collar dog, I have a vague recollection of seeing a copy of Churchills years ago & that it showed the West Kents horse as the new regiments collar dog.

[Jim Maclean]

Sorry should have been clearer, I meant The Buffs(Royal East Kent Regt).

Worn up to 1894,

[leigh kitchen]

i did'nt know that - so the East Kents wore the White Horse of Kent as a collar dog at one time?

The West Kents wore a dog in a basket Royal Crest collar dog did'nt they, 'tho I don't know which other designs they may have used.

[Jim Maclean]

According to Churchill they only wore the 'Dog in a basket' albeit at time with a title scroll. T.F., Volunteers and Cyclists wore the white horse and the TA gradually adopted the Regulars pattern.

i did'nt know that - so the East Kents wore the White Horse of Kent as a collar dog at one time?

The West Kents wore a dog in a basket Royal Crest collar dog did'nt they, 'tho I don't know which other designs they may have used.

[leigh kitchen]

But Churchill's saying that at one time the East Kents wore the White Horse that we associate with the West Kents as a collar dog?

[Jim Maclean]

Yes he is,
I quote: "In 1881 the Regiment became The Buffs(East Kent Regiment) and, following a decision made 22nd December 1881, received an Order which included the abolition of the Dragon as a collar badge. The White Horse of Kent rampant and with scroll below inscribed 'INVICTA'."
First taken into use by the 2nd Bn. in Hong Kong 26 Nov. 1882. The Dragon collar badge was reintroduced 1894.
Strange really, I would have associated that sort of badge with W.Kent had you not posted this. I don't really collect collar badges, just the odd few that turn up now and again but I do find his book useful.

But Churchill's saying that at one time the East Kents wore the White Horse that we associate with the West Kents as a collar dog?

[leigh kitchen]

Never knew that - bet that was a popular move within the regiment. Presumably the West Kents were wearing the lion & crown at the time.
So much was up in the air at that time - some numbered regiments getting linked to counties that they did'nt want to be linked to, most regiments getting renamed within a year, all the arguments & ill feeling that must have been invoked, I suppose it's not surprising that there were strange happenings with insignia.

I just pick up odd collar dogs & shoulder titles here & there, just the odd thing that appeals, the most recent including dragoon collar dogs, "single numbered" cavalry & Strathcona Horse shoulder titles. Not really fitting in with my infantry cap badge theme.

[Marc Sherriff]

The West Kent Yoemanry (Queen's Own)
Reference Regimental Badges by Maj TJ Edwards Revised by Arthur L Kipling Edition 6 page 165 and edition 5 page 228.

[leigh kitchen]

The West Kent Yoemanry (Queen's Own)
Reference Regimental Badges by Maj TJ Edwards Revised by Arthur L Kipling Edition 6 page 165 and edition 5 page 228.

Thanks, is that badge exactly the same as the one I've posted? I have'nt got those editions of Edwards (I have only an earlier edition), so can't compare.

The West Kent Yeomanry has a similar badge to this one, a little bit larger & with a slightly different design of horse, & the lettering was in Roman rather than Old English of this badge (K&K 1459 shows the West Kents Yeomanry badge that I'm thinking of).

[Marc Sherriff]

Sorry. I did not notice the scroll was in Old English Script. Try the Kent Fire Brigade.