N.A.D. Brass Box & 17th/21st Lancers Cap Badge

[W Petz]

I have had these two items since 1975 and would like to verify their originality. First of all is the N.A.D Bronze or Brass Box with the British War Dept symbol on it...it appears it may be something that might hang from a chain. Can anyone tell me what N.A.D stands for??

The second item is a British 17th/21st Lancers Cap Badge that appears to be made also of Bronze or Brass...can anyone tell me what war period ...WW1/WW2? and it's approximate worth. I'm getting ready to put some items up for sale on E-Stand and these two will be included. Thanks in Advance

Bill

[W Petz]

17th/21st Lancers Cap Badge

[Dave Alexander]

No idea what the box is but the Motto (never, ever say "badge") looks to be an OR's post war stamped white metal with brass slider. They retail around $18 - $20 US.

[W Petz]

Dave,

A collector contacted me and provided the following information on the NAD Brass box.

The NAD stands for Native Affairs Department. The natives who lived in Kenya, pre-indepndence, carried their ID document in containers like this. I think the Swahili word for these is/was "kipende." FYI, they are made of brass and did have a chain for wearing around the neck.

I don't agree with your assessment on the "Motto" it is quite old and I think it is made of brass (the same as the NAD brass box) to include the slider...not stamped white metal with a brass slider as you have commented. I agree a white metal "motto would be worth $18 to $20 but that is not the case with this particular one.

Bill

No idea what the box is but the Motto (never, ever say "badge") looks to be an OR's post war stamped white metal with brass slider. They retail around $18 - $20 US.

[Dave Alexander]

Dave,

A collector contacted me and provided the following information on the NAD Brass box.

The NAD stands for Native Affairs Department. The natives who lived in Kenya, pre-indepndence, carried their ID document in containers like this. I think the Swahili word for these is/was "kipende." FYI, they are made of brass and did have a chain for wearing around the neck.

I don't agree with your assessment on the "Motto" it is quite old and I think it is made of brass (the same as the NAD brass box) to include the slider...not stamped white metal with a brass slider as you have commented. I agree a white metal "motto would be worth $18 to $20 but that is not the case with this particular one.

Bill

Bill, interesting story on the box. As for the motto, I have never seen or even heard of a brass one although I am familiar with white metal, silver and even gold. I suggest you get in touch with the Asst Regt'l Secretary of the QRL, as they are now, Capt (Rtd) J.M. Holtby. He is in charge of the museum, archives, property and historical enquiries. His e-mail is jmh.qrl@btinternet.com and I would be most interested to find out about this particular motto.
Dave.

[W Petz]

Dave,

I have sent off an email inquiry with scans to Capt (Rtd) J.M. Holtby today. If he responds lets see what he has to say about the Motto in question.

Bill

Bill, interesting story on the box. As for the motto, I have never seen or even heard of a brass one although I am familiar with white metal, silver and even gold. I suggest you get in touch with the Asst Regt'l Secretary of the QRL, as they are now, Capt (Rtd) J.M. Holtby. He is in charge of the museum, archives, property and historical enquiries. His e-mail is jmh.qrl@btinternet.com and I would be most interested to find out about this particular motto.
Dave.

[W Petz]

Dave,

Do you know if Capt (Rtd) J.M. Holtby's email address is valid. I sent an inquiry to him on 5 Jan 2013 and have not received a reply.

Bill

Dave,

I have sent off an email inquiry with scans to Capt (Rtd) J.M. Holtby today. If he responds lets see what he has to say about the Motto in question.

Bill

Bill, interesting story on the box. As for the motto, I have never seen or even heard of a brass one although I am familiar with white metal, silver and even gold. I suggest you get in touch with the Asst Regt'l Secretary of the QRL, as they are now, Capt (Rtd) J.M. Holtby. He is in charge of the museum, archives, property and historical enquiries. His e-mail is jmh.qrl@btinternet.com and I would be most interested to find out about this particular motto.
Dave.

[grndevil44]

Hi Bill
I emailed a while back regarding a steel helmet that had a painted insignia of a skull and cross bones came from a junk shop with original net that had never been off (turned out to be home guard related)

was a few years ago but if I remmeber it took a little while to get an email back, but he did respond, I dont know him personally, but his reply seemed like he was a bit mad I would assume that the helmet could have been lancer related.

have to wait and see, have a feeling though the badge is a repro

[Bond]

You could try posting the motto on the British & Commonwealth Military badge forum, as there are a number of avid collectors of the motto on there.

Jerry B.

[Robert Shoaf]

Was there not a wartime brass " economy" motto made during WWI for the 17th Lancers ? I have one, and I'm convinced that it's a good example.

Bob Shoaf

[Bond]

Was there not a wartime brass " economy" motto made during WWI for the 17th Lancers ? I have one, and I'm convinced that it's a good example.

Bob Shoaf

There is a debate about such an example from circa page 2 onwards.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...t=29393&page=3

Jerry B.

[grndevil44]

I should not have said repro without any reason, apologies, I would like to hear more expert opinions, being a novice collector I prefer to see lugs for a WW2 or earlier badge, but thats not really the question here, production did not stop at the end of WW2

[GriffMJ]

Hi

The Brass Motto shown in the post below is almost certainly a reproduction.

[Bond]

Hi

The Brass Motto shown in the post below is almost certainly a reproduction.

Hi Griff and I thought you would have an opinion.

Jerry B.