What are these uniforms, colonial?

[ynot]

Hello,

Here are 2 pictures of my great grandad, 617 Pte. Tom Forrester of the 24^th London <st1:city><st1london st1:city="" st1="">Regt. </st1london></st1:city><o ="">

My question is: does anyone recognise the type of the uniforms?<o ="">
I suspect that the first picture was taken during the Boer War but I'm not sure, he would have been 25 years old then.
<o></o>

The 2^nd photo could be in <st1:country-region><st1lace>India</st1lace></st1:country-region>, the <st1lace>Andaman Islands</st1lace> maybe but can anyone tell roughly when by the style of uniform? I think he is wearing his <st1lace>S. Africa</st1lace> medal ribbon in this photo, some bugger stole his medals from my grandad years ago. Luckily, his BWM wasn't taken. I have that one now.

Tony<o></o>



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[ynot]

2nd photo

[leigh kitchen]

At a guess about Boer War period for the first (the slouch hat lingered on after for years in some units, both volunteer & regular).

The second photo - the style of uniform was still in use in the 1930's (I've got a batch of about 5 of them with matching shorts, named to men of 1st Norfolks, from 1935 / 1936). There were variations because of local manufacture etc, & they survive in a modified form.
The medal ribbon isn't that of the Kings South Africa, it's "striped" right for the Queens South Africa but the light & dark shades are in the wrong places, I don't think that's down purely to photo developing techniques of the time.
Could be the Tibet Medal, or the WWI British War Medal.

1/24th spent WWI on the Western Front, 2/24th were on Western Front, Macedonia, Palestine, back to Western Front.

[ynot]

Hello Leigh,

He volunteered in Aug. 1914 and was wounded in the eye but I don't know where, France, Belgium or the local pub.

I know he was sent to Rangoon via Alexandria in Nov. 1915 (arrived 5.1.16) where he picked up an illness from which he died shortly after the war ended. At this time he may have been in the 18th London Batt., going by a piece of paper I have.

In the National Roll of the Great War he is down as being in the 25th Rifle Brigade, 24th London Regt.

I've not heard that he was in Tibet, just S. Africa, India, Burma and I think Afganistan too.

Thanks for the info.

Tony

[leigh kitchen]

Hello Leigh,

I've not heard that he was in Tibet, just S. Africa, India, Burma and I think Afganistan too.

Thanks for the info.
Tony

The ribbon does'nt look the right shades for the India General Service Medals either.
There were units British TF units Afghanistan who qualified for the medal for that area WWI / 1919.

"Soldiers Died" shows 3 x Thomas Forresters:

From Liverpool, 1st Bn Liverpool Regiment, died France & Flanders 16/11/14,
From Scotland, 1st Bn KOSB's, died 5/8/14 at "Home",
From Nelson, Lancs., 17th Bn Lancashire Fusiliers, Died of Wounds France & Flanders 28/10/188, DCM holder.

There are 4 x Forresters of The London regiment who are listed:

James Charles from Poplar, 13th Bn, formerly 17th Bn, Killed in Action France & Flanders 29/8/18,
John, from Cleethorpes, 14th Bn, Killed in Action EEF, 8/12/17,
Robert, from Lowick, 8th Bn, Killed in Action 15/9/16, France & Flanders,
William Bailey, from Tonbridge Wells, 16th Bn, Died of Wounds 19/9/15, France & Flanders.

Is he on the CWGC site?

[ynot]

Hello Leigh,

He's not on the site, he died as a civvi in the early 20s from some sort of jungle illness, but was in and out of the army from 1899 till WWI.

His family are from Ramsgate, he moved to Bermondsey in the 1890s and joined the local regiment probably because he was in trouble with the police again (also the reason for leaving Ramsgate).

I wonder what that ribbon was for. Would it help if I blew that section of the picture up?

Thanks very much for what you have told me, being family history makes it a whole load more interesting.

Tony

[Marc Sherriff]

This may or maynot help!

KHAKI UNIFORM 1896 - 1902<O</O
<O</O

Introduced by Army Order 83 of April 1896, for service at all stations abroad except Canada.

Frock.<O</O

Khaki Drill, full in the chest, cut with patrol shaped back and side bodies, stand and fall collar fastened with two hooks and eyes. Patch pocket with pointed flaps and a small button on each side of the breast with a one inch box pleat down the centre. The pockets to be 6½ inches deep and 6¼ inches broad at the top. The top edge of the pocket flap to be one inch below the centre of the second button. Two inside pockets in the lining of the skirt in front fastened with a small khaki covered button. Two pleats about 3 inches long on each side of the neck in front running slightly diagonally from the collar seam in the direction of the armhole, also two pleats underneath the breast pockets, to give shape to the waist and fullness to the breast. Five small buttons down the front. The back to have a yoke, sufficiently wide to cover the shoulder seams, ending under the shoulder straps, and not too deep. A slit up each side of sufficient depth to suit the height of the wearer. Sleeves with three pleats, pointed cuffs 5 inches high at the point and 2 inches behind. Shoulder straps of the same material as the frock and fastened with a small button.

Prior to 1902 the version in the second picture was introduced, which resembles the 1902 Service Dress, less the skirt pockets.

[ynot]

Thanks for that Marc.

So the first picture must be during the Boer War.

I've been checking out his butons and shoulder title on the first photo and it doesn't look like he was in The Queens till after the Boer War to me.

I've blown them up a bit but they're not very clear. Has anyone got an idea which unit?

Tony

[ynot]

Button

[leigh kitchen]

The shoulder title might be the curved "QUEENS" worn by the West Surreys after about 1900.

The 24th London (named as such upon formation of the TF in 1908) were affiliated to that regiment, wearing "T" over "24" over "COUNTY OF LONDON" or over "LONDON".

The button is the General Service pattern, looks like it's got the Queen Victoria Crown.

[Tony Farrell]

It's a QSA ribbon. They can often be confused with the Tibet Medal ribbon due to the photo process. The only British units involved in the Tibet expedition were the 1st Royal Fusiliers & 1st Norfolks.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ght=Tibet+1904

[ynot]

Thanks very much, you have all been a great help (as always).

Tony