WW2 Canadian 2nd Division - Patch Collection

[ritchie4]

Hello,

About a year ago I decided to start to try to collect all the cloth titles for the units in the 2nd Canadian division during WW2. I am looking to get an example of a Canadian made title, an English made title and a Canvas title for each unit. I have photographed what I have managed to get a hold of so far.

The Canadian 2nd Division in WW2 consisted of the The Royal Regiment of Canada, The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry (Wentworth Regiment), The Essex Scottish Regiment, The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada, Le Régiment de Maisonneuve, The Calgary Highlanders, The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada, The South Saskatchewan Regimentand Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal. The Toronto Scottish and VIII Recce were also attached as support.

Please enjoy and feel free to comment.

Ritchie.

PS- I have also included the 2nd Div cap badges I have managed to get as well.

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[1Perazzi]

Those are nice , sounds like you have your work cut out for you good hunting mike

[Bjorn S]

Wow, that's a really nice collection!
I really love those printed shoulder titles.

Is it still easy to find WW2 Canadian insignia in Canada?

[peter monahan]

Not very easy at all, I don't think. Nice collection so far, Ritchie!

[Grizzly]

Hi Ritchie, SWW titles are a great area to collect. Nice start on the ones to 2 CID. Be careful with the "Canadian" titles. They are mostly post SWW. 2 CID wore the geometric patches until the fall of 1942, then the division switched to the barrel shaped titles. They had an initial issue of embroidered ones in late 1942 early 1943 sourced from British makers, then they were issued with the printed titles and formation patches. There are lots of varieties for some units, like the South Sasks and Essex.
Officers of the division wore a bullion wire C II patch, and the Toronto Scottish wore a patch early in the war that had the Machine Gun arrow device imposed on the formation patch. VIII Recce were the division recce battalion (not attached). Their cap badge is getting to be a tough one to find, the last ones on ebay realizing over $500.
From your post, are you are trying to acquire the worsted slip-ons? Note, if so there is no worsted slip-on for the VIII Recce, but there is one for the "parent" unit, the 14 CLH. Some of the worsted slip-ons for the division units are very difficult to find. Are you also looking for the starch back patterns?

[ritchie4]

Hi Grizzly,

Thank you for your detailed reply. I really enjoy learning new things about this area of my collecting as there is not a great amount of literature out there. I am really trying to collect as many examples as possible including the worsted slip-ons.

Now, maybe you can clarify a few things for me. First, you stated that most of the barrel patches are post-war. Is there a way to tell the difference between a war time and post war example - for instance I thought the war time patches were made of melton with black backs, while the post war patches were made of felt and sometimes had a cheese cloth like backing? Also what exactly is a starch back? I know they have a starch/glue backing, but where were they made and when?

I will try and post a pic of the back of some of my examples, including some ones that are not pictured that are definitely post war. Also from personal observation, many of the post war examples in my collection seem to be a slightly rounder shorter barrel than my wartime ones.

Ritchie.

[ritchie4]

The backs of the patches in the first picture.

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[ritchie4]

More RHLI titles

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[ritchie4]

I will post pics of a black back RHLI patch and a Post war RHLI patch

[ritchie4]

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[Grizzly]

HI Ritchie, Here is a clarification... I hope. The embroidered titles of Canadian manufacture may be post war. Some contracts were let in Canada for embroidered titles for the 2 CID units, but they were not all filled. When the overseas army switched to printed starting in 1943, many Canadian contracts were cancelled. Some of the 2 CID units also had battalions that were "active service" in Canada. Those units were entitled to titles (pardon the play on words) and wore the same pattern titles as the overseas units. (In particular the Fus MR, the Black Watch and R de Mais had active service battalions in Canada as well as overseas.)
Distinguishing wartime from post war is very difficult for many of these regiments. Most of them wore the same pattern of titles until unification in 1968. Checking the backing material is a clue, but not a definite answer. Black backing can be found on wartime and postwar titles. Embroidered wartime titles were made on melton and felt backing material. Late in the war, a maker in the UK (maybe the Falk Company) made a single layer felt title with the starch or glue to stiffen the titles. For more information here is a link to an article on the Canadian titles:
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/can...imer/index.htm Have a read of the article, and maybe we can go from there.

[Grizzly]

In your image the one with the black backing may be SWW or post war. The one with the white is post war. Note it is much larger than the other pattern.

[brooksbz]

back

Does the white and red thread on the back of the Black Watch title (bottom left side) mean WW2? I always wondered.

[Grizzly]

Helllo brooksbz, The style/colour of embroidery is not a way to conclusively say that the Black Watch title is Second World War. This pattern was worn well into the post war period and likely by the regular force battalion in the 50's and 60's.

[ritchie4]

Any ideas about the manufacture of this Calgary Highlanders title?

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