Somerset & Cornwall LI (?) Green & Maize Badges

[leigh kitchen]

I mentioned these months ago from my jungle lair, during discussion of green & maize badges on another thread.
I bought them at Hythe, Kent (lots of military connections around that area) in 1992.

The Musketry Instructor & "LMG" badges are 7 or 8 cms across x 10 or 11 cms high, they're backed with a white linen type cloth.
Obviously, the St Edwards Crown in the designs dates them to QE II's reign.
The "LMG" badge is presumably unofficial & should properly be "LG".

The red "backing" to the bugles is of cloth, not embroiderd.

It seems to me that the bugles will be badges of the Somerset & Cornwall Light Infantry (an amalgamation that I suspect most people probably forget about because of the infantry "Brigade" system & its cap badges - this system meant that "new" regiments formed by amalgamations during the life of the Brigades did'nt have their own cap badges, or that the new badges were worn only by the T.A.).

The bugle badges have the Mural Crown of the Somerset Light Infantry but lack the "PA" monogram (Prince Albert), & they feature the red badge backing of the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry.
The bugle without wreath is presumably the badge of a Bugler, the bugle within the wreath the (again unofficial) badge of a Bugle Major. It measures about 7.3 cms x 6.2 cms.
Both bugles have white "web" stiffeners to the embroidery & the remains of black paper backings.

Naturally, the reverses of all 4 badges have been smeared with glue by a previous collector.

Has anybody any thoughts on or knowledge of these badges please?

[leigh kitchen]

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[Tony Farrell]

I've never seen these SLI/DCLI amalgamated 'brigade' patterns before. I have, however, seen the LMG proficiency badge - albeit without the crown. LMG being a variation for the Light Machine Gun (L4A1) and not LG - Lewis Gunner (for which it was originally used). I'm presuming the crown signifies instructor status, rather than mere proficient mortal. They look uncut to me, as I'm sure they would never have been worn in a square format.

[Rick Research]

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[Tony Farrell]

Rest assured Rick, the British Army isn't that hard up for kit - although I'd rather have a go with a Lewis Gun than one of those poxy LSWs (an SA80 in all but name). I was an LMG (a Bren in all but calibre) gunner right up to 1990 and was wearing a '44 pattern helmet & strips of cloth around my bloody ankles until c.1985.

Anyhow, as an aside, a wreathed 'L' is sometimes confused with Lewis & Light Machine Gun proficiency badges. It actually signifies 'Layer' - as in gun layer. These trade badges are no longer used unfortunately, as I quite liked them as they added a bit of colour & variety to the 'wooly pully'. Nowadays, everyones' dressed up like a damn cabbage - even on parades! Boring.

[leigh kitchen]

I'm assuming that the bugles are S. & C.L.I. because of the mural crown & red backing to the bugles - the S.L.I. wore the Mural Crown, representing the battle honour "Jellalabad" but did'nt wear a red backing - the D.C.L.I. did,as a reminder of their red feathers in the hats gesture to their enemies during some unpleasantness in a little island called America a couple of hundred years ago.
The 2 regiments were amalgamated in 1959 & so never got the opportunity to have their own cap badge, just adopting the bland little bugle badge of the Light Infantry Brigade which is just a simplification of all the component regiments badges, removing all those fiddly little regimental details that seem to so hack off non-military officialdom (well, okay, the K.O.Y.L.I. had a different style of bugle, the French horn, so the new badge was just tough on them).
Ultimately the S. & C.L.I. & the other regiments of the L.I. Bde were amalgamated into the new regiment of Light Infantry, & continued to wear the Bde badge which was now the new regiment's badge with the addition of the red backing.
I'm guessing that these badges were just a way of sneaking in a bit of regimental identity, the regiments collar dogs would have been of the same design presumably.

[Jim Maclean]

Just happened to be in the area with a couple of hours to kill, so I popped into the DCLI reimental museum in Bodmin.

The chap in charge at the time agrees with Bugle Major and Bugler for the bottom two, but has no idea about the other two.

[leigh kitchen]

A couple of hours to kill & you nip into a museum, not a pub? I know where I'd've been. I'm impressed, that's real devotion to a hobby. The bugles I suppose can be dated to a particular regiment over no more than about a 10 yrs period maximum, but the other 2 could be pre-amalgamation, post-amalgamation or both. Thanks for the info.

[Jim Maclean]

Just got Regiment magazine no 59, which deals with the Light Infantry post amalgamations. The photos of Bugle Majors all show the bugle without laurels being worn above the crown and chevrons. It does however picture 3 badges with laurels around the bugle with the wording CO's Bugler, Adj's Bugler and RSM's Bugler. Also shown is one without wording attributed to an RSM's bugler.

Of course they don't have the Coronet, but I think it's better info than I got from the museum.

[leigh kitchen]

Thanks, I've seen a bugles with wreaths referred to as CO's Bugler (but not this pattern of mural crown etc)
I only discovered that "The Regiment" was out again when I stumbled across one on the LI a few weeks ago in WH Smug.
They're useful mags. tho' they don't go into much detail - what annoys me is that they've always tended to show a number of photos of the same thing e'g 2 squaddies in one shot, one of them on his own in another shot - just pointless repetition. It really is just pointless repetition. I'm suer that you'll agree it's just pointless repetition. Pointless.

[Jim Maclean]

Totally pointless! They all look the same to us matelots anyway.