Thoughts on British telescope

[Pte.Nelson]

Hello... I've been a lurker on this great site for a few years and recently came across an item that has me a bit perplexed.

I came across this brass three draw telescope at an antique shop that just opened up. When I picked it up I was praying it was Scout Regiment marked. It wasn't, but it had broad arrow and stamped "Stanley and Co., London". The leather is in great condition and the optic quality is awesome as well. I was a little leery about the stamp and no date... something just doesn't look right... but the price was what I was willing to pay for a cool vintage brass telescope.

I have been digging online for information of British telescopes and "Stanley & Co., London" but drawing a dead-end. There's info on the Signalling, GS and Scout Regiment marked telescopes but all those are clearly marked. Comparing this to the plethora of Scout marked telescope images I confidently say this is the same pattern. There was a W.F. Stanley & Co. that made telescopes in London in the late 19th/early 20th century and whose factory was recquisitioned by the gov't in WW1 and WW2 but little other info on that.

Any thoughts? Anyone ever seen one like this?

[BrentNunns]

Welcome Pte Nelson, good to see you have got past your lurker phase.
Sadly I am no expert, but the forum does have a couple of optics specialists who might be able to give you some definite answers.

What I do know is that it is all about markings when it comes to military telescopes.
The lack of a date mark and model type does seem unusual, and suggests to me that your telescope was not manufactured as part of a military contract.

I’m thinking that the most likely reason for it sporting a broad arrow mark, is that your telescope is one of the many civilian optics that were donated and put into service during the war due to the extreme shortages of equipment.

Looking forward to hearing other peoples opinions.

[Pte.Nelson]

Hello and thanks! I reenact and collect mostly British/ Commonwealth items. Can't afford much but love the hunt! I'm happy as a clam with the purchase. It will see some "observation post" action at my next reenactment.

Didn't think of civilian donation; makes sense. If it was made my W.F. Stanley then perhaps it was already 'on the shelf' when the company was requisitioned by the government in both World Wars. The question of which war also remains...

[R Williams]

Take a look here http://www.stanleylondon.com/tele35.htm

The lack of markings and absence of blacking on the brass make it suspect in terms of military issue.

If the optics are decent it would still be a usable glass.

[Pte.Nelson]

One of the first things I learned when I started researching this telescope is that Stanley London is not related to W.F. Stanley at all and was started in the late 70s. They named their company Stanley London just to cash in on the famous name. A lot of people try to antique them and pass off as vintage.

I have seen quite a few clear photos of military marked telescopes with no blacking, mostly WW1 dated examples.

The conclusion I'm drawing is that it was government property for non-military use, origin and date unknown. W.F. Stanley was floated to the stock market to become William Ford Stanley and Co Ltd in 1900, so in theory the markings should reflect that.

Now I'm studying to what extent was the broad arrow mark used outside of military stores and ordinance...

[BrentNunns]

Hmmmm, WW1 or WW2 period?
After a bit of deep contemplation using all the known variables, I suspect your telescope was most likely produced between the wars and put into service during WW2.

[BrentNunns]

Just out of interest, the following is mentioned on page 58 of the most excellent book "New Zealand Army Personal Equipment 1910 - 1945" written by brothers Barry and Matthew O'Sullivan.

"Binoculars of all types were loaned or gifted to the Army Department during WW2. 9154 pairs of binoculars were recieved during this period. By 1946, 8264 pairs had been returned to their owners (AJHR, H19, 1946)"

[R Williams]

All of the military issue telescopes in my collection and any I've seen or seen pictures of that are the same style as your scope are marked
"Tel. Signals & G.S MkIV" or whatever the mark no.,with the year, the maker's name and a serial number. All the military scopes were blackened. You just don't make bright shiney brass for use in the field where you don't want to call attention to yourself. Also the eyepieces are marked either High or Low as the G.S. scope came with both, the one not in use being stored in a small case attached to the carrying strap on the case.

Now, all that being said, I have seen far too many of the scopes where someone thought they would look ever so much better polished and have scrubbed the brass to a blinding brightness. There don't seem to be any traces of blacking on your scope though, even in the knurling at the fittings, so I don't think it was ever blackened.

It is my understanding that the broadarrow was used to denote government ownership, not specifically military ownership.

I think that your scope was purchased by the government but by a non-military branch. A guess would be between 1900 and 1940 but most likely between the wars. The next question would be who would have used such a tool? Being an American I'm not familiar enough with the various civilian parts of the British government to know who might include telescopes in their inventory.

I think it's a perfectly legitimate scope, owned by the government, just not used by the military.