Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry Badges.

[leigh kitchen]

I'd been waiting for years to get a WWI brass economy badge of the Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry
They wore the stringed bugle in white metal, the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry wore the identical badge in brass.
Along came 2, some months apart, (from the same dealer in Cambridge 3 years ago)so I have one which I am happy is genuine, with copper loop fittings & the manufacturers plate on the back, the other one, with a slider, I'm doubtful of.
The white metal Ox & Bucks L.I. is there for comparison ie for no good reason (to me it's a "maybe" rather than undoubtedly genuine).
The brass version with slider is slightly different from what I take to be the norm in that it has a very slight widening of the slider where it joins the badge, or perhaps a slightly raised flat panel on the back of the badge, where the slider is attached. Opinions please, telling me that the version with loops is duff will result in a teddy throwing, but I'm not going to weep over the others.
Ah, & now I've seen the photos it's obvious that I'd better use the camera instead of the scanner - thepoints I'm making are'nt obvious at all from the photos.

[leigh kitchen]

Gordon Bennet, the flaming things all look white metal in these photos.

[Ian Jewison]

Interesting, I never knew the metal denoted a different Regiment! I have quite a few of these kicking around....a relative was in one of these Regiments during WWI and I have a few of his badges....will dig them out and see what they were!
He was killed during WWI.......

I thought they were all Light Infantry!

/Ian

[Jim Maclean]

Serious question here, how the fling can you tell the difference between O&B economy and Sherwood Rangers?


Baffled from Tonbridge Wells

Enclosed another plated one from the hoard

Note the voided bugle strings.

[leigh kitchen]

Serious question here, how the fling can you tell the difference between O&B economy and Sherwood Rangers?


Baffled from Tonbridge Wells

Enclosed another plated one from the hoard

Note the voided bugle strings.

I can't.
I'm assuming (that word again....) that the looped one shown is yeomanry as it has a little brass plate on the back, a little refinement that I have'nt seen on any WWI brass economy badges to any unit.
They do, however crop up on the RND battalions badges.
They turn up every now and then on badges in OR's metals (eg I've seen this feature on a w/m Kings Crown KOSB), the explanation somebody once gave me was that these were officer's badges in OR's metals.
I've got a very yellow metal Kings Crown South Africa Police helmet plate with a small oval plate sweated on to the back of it - "Firmin London".

Is your Ox & Bucks plated over yellow metal?
There are badges around which are yellow metal plated over with white metal. I've seen a A&SH one which had nearly all the plating removed & did'nt get it (should've).
A dealer I knew had a Rifle Bde one in an acid bath, trying to get all traces of the plating off in order to reveal or imitate a WWI brass economy.
I have at least one of these, a HLI with almost all traces of plating removed.
Are these things WWI brass economy plated so that they could continue in use post 1919, rather than be scrapped?
That was a theory put forward by one of the regimental museums that I contacted years ago.

[Ian Jewison]

Gents,

What would this little lot be:
Obviously West Yorkshire and Notts & Derby Regiments....the buttons are West Yorkshire as well.......The Sterling silver pin in the centre has KOYLI on it........

The "T"'s are for territorial?

Not had this lot out for years!!! Can not say anything much about it except he was an Officer and killed I believe 1915!
They all belonged to the same person...........



Regards, Ian

[leigh kitchen]

Had a quick look at the photo, but did'nt make a note as I went through -

the buttons with the royal arms are General Service, came into use for OR's instead of regimental buttons during the latter part of Victorian times, were generally replaced for infantry by regimental patterns again c 1924, but continued in use as there are St Edwards Crown version (ie QE II), I was issued a grey cape for use on public duties in 1976, it had yellow metal Kings Crown GS buttons on it.

The running horse West Yorks Regt badge was sealed on 1/12/1896, & continued in use until 50's/60's.

The Notts & Derby scroll badge is that of the Sherwood Foresters, worn from late Victorian times (the St Edwards Crown version that superceded it was sealed 1/2/55).

The Tiger buttons are West Yorks Regt, can't tell from the photo wether they're officer's gilt or OR's yellow metal.

The little coiled French bugle badges are:

Little badge with crown - Old Comrades,

All brass, WWI economy, 1916 - 1919.
In 1988 I was told by somebody at the regimental museum during a phone conversation that he'd been told by the Old Comrades that these all brass badges were'nt issued during WWI but were dished out in 1946 or 1947 as a lapel badge for Old Comrades attending Minden Day celebrations. I regard this as unreliable info, perhaps surplus WWI brass economy were used as lapel badges in '46/'47.

The ones with silver coloured rose are the "normal" pattern, worn from late Victorian times they were replaced with an all silver coloured version, sealed 29/6/38 - the version that I have has a seperately made rose, so presumably the old dies were kept.

A collar dog is also in your photo - I do'nt know what fittings it has on the back, but I aquired a set from a collection which was formed about 1920 which have two large flat rectangular brass lugs on the back rather than the usual copper wire loops, & they came with an "extra" identical badge which represented the cap badge.

The small bugle was also produced in white metal & was worn as the sleeve badge for infantry buglers, & also as part of the shoulder title of various light infantry regiments, including the KOYLI.
It was produced in gilt as an officer's badge of the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry.

The "T"'s were worn as part of shoulder titles to denote "Territorial", ie TF, they were also worn in bronze & in gilt below officers collar dogs.

The bronze star is an officers rank pip, & as it stands alone, represents 2nd Lieutenant.

[Ian Jewison]

Thanks Leigh,

Sorry I know that about the General Service buttons but just threw them in as it is part of the same group....

The French Bugle badges are cap badges?

You mention collar dogs...what are these the "T"'s?

I don't think I can find anything more about this relative as my Grandmother knew who he was...since she died in 1976 no one can remember what his name was and which side of the the family he came from!

Cheers, Ian

[leigh kitchen]

You mention collar dogs...what are these the "T"'s?

I don't think I can find anything more about this relative as my Grandmother knew who he was...since she died in 1976 no one can remember what his name was and which side of the the family he came from!

Cheers, Ian[/QUOTE]
Hiya, sorry, I was looking at the photo again & updating what I'd posted, so the T's are covered.

The "wrong facing" French horn is a collar dog.

The all brass French horns are cap badges worn during the latter part of WWI, as an economy measure - saved on white metal for the rose, simplified production, & presumably there was a saving in producing them in brass instead of gilding metal, which seems impossible tell from brass anyway, although generally it has less of a yellow tone to it.

The versions with the white metal rose are the "normal" pattern.

There was a bigger version, in yellow metal with a white metal rose, which was worn on the "Smasher" (similar to the Italian Bersagliari hat as I remember, rather like the familiar slouch hat), & also possibly as a pagri badge. I've only seen one example of that badge, in blackened metal with a silvery coloured rose, it was around in a shop in Cambridge for about 15 - 20 years, for £20 & I made the mistake of not getting it.

It's a pity that there's no chance of finding out more about this relative............

[leigh kitchen]

.......

Enclosed another plated one from the hoard

Note the voided bugle strings.

Is that some kind of officer's quality badge in silver plate or similar? I know they wore the Rifles / LI boss badges & buttoned tabs as collar ornaments, but it's unusual to see an Ox & Bucks with voided tassels & the metal looks quite silvery & sharp. An OR's Victorian period badge by its quality?

[Jim Maclean]

It appears to be silver plated, in my opinion it's not heavy enough to be solid silver. I'll post a pic of the back tomorrow when the light good for a natural shot.
I can't tell what the underlying metal is as it doesn't appear to be polished through at all, again I'll have a better look tomorrow under natural light.
The age is difficult, this badge came with a lot of others that included pre 1881 numbered glengarry badges to post 52 badges with the 'Queen's' crown. They came through a third person that for whatever reason was reluctant to tell the story.

Is that some kind of officer's quality badge in silver plate or similar? I know they wore the Rifles / LI boss badges & buttoned tabs as collar ornaments, but it's unusual to see an Ox & Bucks with voided tassels & the metal looks quite silvery & sharp. An OR's Victorian period badge by its quality?

[Jim Maclean]

Here's the back, I've had a good look through a 10x loupe and can't find anywhere that the plating has worn away so the base metal remains a mystery. There's a very strange almost irridescent tarnish on the back, that's what makes me believe it's silver plated. Might see how it responds to 'silver dip'.

[Brodie]

this is the badge on the cap i had in my collection
its WW1

[leigh kitchen]

Interesting, again, the tassels are voided quite a way up the bugle cords - not a hard & fast rule, but perhaps more common in earlier badges.

[yellow]

As I cannot seam to be able to find a reply to "what are those T's?". ....I will post.

They were worn by members of the territorial force during WW1. I have seen pics of OR's and CO's wearing them.

Steve.