My Grandad Jack

[dphillipsd]

Hi All,

It would mean a great deal to me if someone could decipher this medal ribbon and tell me what medals they would have been. This ribbon is extremely special to me, as its my Grandads, he fought as a bomber pilot in North Africa and in Europe with the South African Airforce, forging his birth certificate so he could join up early.

He survived the war, but died in a boating accident before I ever met him.

Unfortunely, his medals were stolen from our house in 1994 and this is all I have to remember him.

Would it also be possible to try and get his medals back? If I did, would I have to go through South Africa or the UK, as SA was part of the Commonwealth back then.

Thanks in advance.

First Picture: Grandad Jack in Cairo



Second Picture: Ribbon bar front:



Third picture: Ribbon Bar back:

[DAK Rommel]

Hi there,

The ribbon bar is as follows:
Africa Star. 1939-1945 Star, British War Medal, Defence Medal and Africa Service Medal

Hope this helps

All the best

Rob

[DAK Rommel]

The last medal is the Africa Star rather than the South Africa Star.
I would think that you would have to contact the South African Defence Department, since he served for them. All the countries usually keep spare original medals locked up in their vaults so that you may request them.

I requested my grandfathers medals that were never given to him, or he never collected for some reason. Suprisingly they gave me the unissued medals in their original packing. I thought that they would be restrikes, but they were unissued originals.

Hope this helps

Rob

[DAK Rommel]

whoops , I meant Africa Service Medal, rather than South Africa Service Medal


Rob

[dphillipsd]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the info. Thats what I feared - South African defense dept so slow these days. Also what proof would you need that they got the medals?

[Greeves]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the info. Thats what I feared - South African defense dept so slow these days. Also what proof would you need that they got the medals?

The respective governments would have his service records on file so they would know what he is entitled to. You will probably have to prove that you are next-of-kin, which probably shouldn't be too hard.

Best regards,
Geoff

[ROBB]

Why is your Grandad wearing an Army uniform if he was in the RAF.If he were flight crew he would have the rank of seargent or above and would be sporting a half wing or full wing on his uniform .Are you sure he wasnt a soldier / Rob

[DAK Rommel]

Hi Dp

When I did it, all I did was write as much information as I could find on my grandfather
Name/Rank/Serial Number/Birthdate/& Where he served etc.
I also listed my family link, - that he was my grandfather through my father, and their names. I didnt need to provide any birth certificates or anything like that.
The South African Govt may be more strict than the NZ Defence Dept, but I doubt it.
You will also have to provide the year of death, as they will only issue medals to you if they know he has passed.

You dont always need that much information, but anything you can tell them is recommended.

If that doesnt help, you could possibly purchase replacement medals, as they are still relatively inexpensive at the moment. I would think, no more than
45 - 50 pounds for the set.

Nice photo of your grandfather by the way

All the best

Rob

[dphillipsd]

Hi Robb,


He was definately with the SAAF, I have found some photocopies of his papers, all to do with the airforce:
i) His Airforce Association Papers
ii) Driving Licence Papers
iii) Request for discharge

Also a picture of him by his plane. His rank was A/M and he was a navigator.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi David, here is a link for you:

http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/medals/replace.htm

I don't know if it might be more economic to buy the medals from a dealer or even if the MoD can help as your Grandad was South African.

Hope this is of some help?

Cheers, Ade.

[leigh kitchen]

Will the SA authorities reissue medals to next of kin? The Brits will reissue them to the original recipient in the event of loss etc, & will make a first time issue to next of kin (medals to which a person was entitled but never claimed while they were alive), but they don't reissue to next of kin. None of the stars or the medal concerned are uncommon on the market in Britain, so although it's "not the same", the anonymous stars can be bought easily. The problem comes with the fact that the medal will already be named to somebody, & the stars will not be named, as the SA issue would be. For a quick & easy way of getting a "representative" group, just buy them, pending the SA authorities responding?

[leigh kitchen]

Why is your Grandad wearing an Army uniform if he was in the RAF.If he were flight crew he would have the rank of seargent or above and would be sporting a half wing or full wing on his uniform .Are you sure he wasnt a soldier / Rob

Looks like the SA airforce cap badge though.........

[dphillipsd]

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi David, thanks for posting the pics and documents relating to your Grandad.

Hi David, I would be interested to know why you think he was a Navigator? I take it this is from family history? I would belive his rank as described as "A/M" would equal "Airman". Again as Robb mentioned all aircrew held the rank of Sgt as a minimum.

Just a comment on the wearing of Army issue khaki BD by Allied Air Crew. This became common after 1943. The reasons behind this was due to camo considerations, as shot down air crew would be less visable in khaki instead of blue/grey. Indeed, the RAF had their own khaki BD which was identical to the Army version just with a different label calling it "Heavy Duty Dress". This was worn by the RAF Regt, ground crews, etc, in addition to Air Crew.

Cheers, Ade.

[dphillipsd]

Hi Ade,

I may be wrong, but its family history as you say. I am merely repeating what was told - as far as I know, even my gran does not know otherwise.