Canadian 2nd Division Tunic July 1942

[ObltKG4]

Recently acquired excellent Canadian 2nd Division tunic. Slight mothing to obverse.
Note the colour selected for 2nd div. melton wool shoulder flash.
When looking at photographic evidence of images and motion film of period, this is the original colour of the division.
At some point, and for reasons unknown hitherto, the division was assigned the lighter blue post ‘42 as the unified divisional colour.
Sadly, no provenance associated with what maybe tunic from Dieppe veteran. If so, was worn before departure August 18, 1942.

I’ve included my spare period shoulder flashes for comparison. It is close to dark navy blue and very rare from my experience.
If you know of any small circular divisional patches, know to be worn above rectangular patch, I’d value seeing one.

If you have any second division battle dress, please post.

[force136]

2nd Division

Not sure about your observations ie. Div patch. The Div patches worn by 2nd Div at Dieppe were similar to those worn during WW 1. In this case it is missing the "unit" identifier. Not sure if they wore them without those? It could possibly be something worn during the interim between the geometric patches and the standard Div patch. Anyway no expert, just a thought.

Ken

Recently acquired excellent Canadian 2nd Division tunic. Slight mothing to obverse.
Note the colour selected for 2nd div. melton wool shoulder flash.
When looking at photographic evidence of images and motion film of period, this is the original colour of the division.
At some point, and for reasons unknown hitherto, the division was assigned the lighter blue post ‘42 as the unified divisional colour.
Sadly, no provenance associated with what maybe tunic from Dieppe veteran. If so, was worn before departure August 18, 1942.

I’ve included my spare period shoulder flashes for comparison. It is close to dark navy blue and very rare from my experience.
If you know of any small circular divisional patches, know to be worn above rectangular patch, I’d value seeing one.

If you have any second division battle dress, please post.

[ObltKG4]

Not sure about your observations ie. Div patch. The Div patches worn by 2nd Div at Dieppe were similar to those worn during WW 1. In this case it is missing the "unit" identifier. Not sure if they wore them without those? It could possibly be something worn during the interim between the geometric patches and the standard Div patch. Anyway no expert, just a thought.

Ken

Ken,
You may want to note that regiment identification for this operation, and for this period of Canadian involvment (remember this was Canadian's first operational sortie of the war in Western Europe) preceded that worn after 1943. What is your source for what was worn at Dieppe?
Regards,
David

[Infanteer]

Curious what other people think the chances are of a tunic being manufactured in Canada and making it's way to England to be issued a month (or less) later. How likely would that be? I'm not saying that it's impossible, but knowing how military supply works and considering that transportation was much slower in 1942 than it is today I'm thinking that it's really unlikely.

[JUBILEE42]

Hi To All,

Living in Dieppe & collector for a while of all related to the raid "Jubilee", i think i can help you here.

Of course Infanteer that a jacket made in Canada one month before the raid had no chance to be at Dieppe...
All uniforms/helmets/equipements from the battle field that i can see was dated 39/40/41 maximum which is logical.

Yes the battle dress patches combo used at Dieppe was as per WWI with 2nd Div "Royal Blue" patch + Regiment patch above.
All Div patches observed were Felt & no canvas.
(I don't think that the rare "Blue/Black" patch was ever used at Dieppe imho)
Also, on all period photos, it appears that the Canada titles worn were always the "curved" second pattern.

Patches were almost always hand stitching but sometimes machine sewed for blue div. patch only.

You could find enclosed period photos & personal items related...Hope it helps.
Cheers,
Thierry


Canadian Div & Rgt patches - DIEPPE 1942




Les Fusilers du Mont Royal - DIEPPE 1942 (White beach)






The Royal Regiment of Canada - PUYS 1942 (Blue beach)



On that photo of a Royal Rgt prisoner, note that the battle dress jacket with 2nd Div/ Royal Rgt patches is a BRITISH made jacket (typical buttons and shoulder flap shape)








Oueen's Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada - POURVILLE 1942 (Green Beach)




Prisoners from Les Fusiliers du Mont Royal - ENVERMEU 1942 (transitional prisoner camp)







Originals Canadian helmets (with battle patches) from DIEPPE, POURVILLE & PUYS



(right to left, bottom to top) Essex Scottish Rgt / Fusilier Mont Royal / Black Watch of Canada / Cameron Highlanders of Canada
/ Royal Rgt of Canada

[ObltKG4]

A sincere thank you for your informative gold mine for a reply.
JUBILEE42 Pls email me.
I concur with the hypothesis that it likely is not a Jubilee tunic, but rather more likely worn by a veteran pre-raid.
Nonetheless, do you have a picture (color if possible, due to 1918) of 2nd shoulder flash patch? Would be very interested.
Like to see the history of the 'rare' patch on my tunic from 1942.
Thanks again!
Obltkg4

[DaveS]

Made in Canada

Re your question about the possibility this was made in Canada, it was. Tip Top Tailors is/was a Canadian tailor chain which did make battle dress. Still around, albeit no longer Canadian owned I believe.

[ObltKG4]

Re your question about the possibility this was made in Canada, it was. Tip Top Tailors is/was a Canadian tailor chain which did make battle dress. Still around, albeit no longer Canadian owned I believe.

Thanks for confirming that. Unaware Tip Top manufactured battle dress for WO during the war.

The tunic is a prize to my collection.

[byterock]

Cut in Montreal and stitched in Ottawa if I am not mistaken.

Could this be from one of the 'Zombie' Divs 8th??

[DaveS]

Cut in Montreal and stitched in Ottawa if I am not mistaken.

Could this be from one of the 'Zombie' Divs 8th??

Wouldn't be from one of the 'zombie' divisions (6th, 7th, 8th), as these all had split field rectangular div. patches. 8th would be green and maroon.

[JUBILEE42]

Wouldn't be from one of the 'zombie' divisions (6th, 7th, 8th), as these all had split field rectangular div. patches. 8th would be green and maroon.

...agree Dave!

Thierry

[Jean-Loup]

Thierry, those are some fine helmets, worth their weight in gold!
Are there any stories behind any of them? Maybe you could make a thread about them?

[ObltKG4]

Thierry, those are some fine helmets, worth their weight in gold!
Are there any stories behind any of them? Maybe you could make a thread about them?

Agreed. Not seen anything of the like in my years of collecting.

[gertje]

Stunning collection, Thierry!

Marcel

[JUBILEE42]

Thierry, those are some fine helmets, worth their weight in gold!
Are there any stories behind any of them? Maybe you could make a thread about them?

Salut Jean-Loup, thanks David & Marcel

Yes these helmets are pretty rare (i only know 4 to 5 others authentified "Jubilee" helmets all over the world...if anyone own one or more, please post it!). Each one i have was found at Dieppe and around during the last 25 years. They all come "from the woodwork" and have never been in the collection circuit. None of them are named but each one have his own story as to where they were found...one was found in an attic with an M42 German helmet (that i have too), other picked-up on local flee market 20 years ago with a Canadian machette also from the raid & one of them was even found lying on a trash!

I will take detailed photos of each one and will post them soon with their story & location where they were found...

...To follow!

Cheers for Now
Thierry