Australian Batte Dress uniform question;

[NickG]

I wanted to find out more about Aussi BD's.
These were made from early on and in superior soft silky wool. Very comfortable and made in the P37 style.
Why were these never adopted early on by the Australian Army?
They usually wore their 4 pocket tunics, typical "Digger" impression,even in the desert when it was cold (evenings)...

Many collectors claim that BD's were only used by the Australians in the post war period...
and their war time production therefor I assume primarilly went to the Allied cause, (like Lend-Lease I guess)
and could have been issued to any of the Commonwealth nations....

This Captain's example from an Australian museum on the other hand IS badged for Australian service, claiming war time usage...
(image credit goes to as tagged)

[NickG]

These images (from an ebay offer, actually reprints) state in the description Australian troops (all from the same war time album and all wearing BD's)...
On another forum I read that early in the war Australian Artillery troops arrived in England and swapped their old fashioned 4 pocket tunics for Battle Dress uniforms, (so perhaps British made versions...could be these men?).
They later shipped out to the Western Desert...

[NickG]

Here's an Australian manufactured BD badged up for British use, a "Desert Rats" seageant and next to it a NZ produced BD.
The New Zealanders DID switch to BD's and followed Britain's lead (as did the Canadians).

Its interesting that the displayed NZ badged/NZ made wedge cap is much greener in color and matches the Australian made BD better than
the NZ made BD.... Its clear that the NZ troops used their own produced BD's but the Australians???

What is the story about Australian BD's war time made? Manufactured for distriution to their commonwealth brothers in arms primarily?
(even US Army troops based in Australia used these occasionally, and the USMC had their "Vandergriff" (IKE) version,
also Aussi made in the very same wool)

[GCG1964]

BD useage in Australia WW2

Hi Nick.

Aussie Armoured Corps, Commandos and Airborne were the accepted users of Australian made BD during WW2.

Truckloads did end up in England as war aid and as you said, the USMC was also issued Aussie P37 BD jackets, and IKE style jackets during their stay in Australia.

As for the photos, the men look English to me. The Australian Army did have a similar side cap but it always had blackened buttons. The patch on their sleeve is not like the smaller usually rectangle Aust divisional/Battalion patch, and is worn a lot lower in the photo than the Aust patches.

Graham.

[NickG]

Hi Nick.

Aussie Armoured Corps, Commandos and Airborne were the accepted users of Australian made BD during WW2.

Truckloads did end up in England as war aid and as you said, the USMC was also issued Aussie P37 BD jackets, and IKE style jackets during their stay in Australia.

As for the photos, the men look English to me. The Australian Army did have a similar side cap but it always had blackened buttons. The patch on their sleeve is not like the smaller usually rectangle Aust divisional/Battalion patch, and is worn a lot lower in the photo than the Aust patches.

Graham.

Thanks for your knowledge Graham. As I wrote earlier the (auction) images I posted were described as Australian servicemen in the UK....
All 3 images came from the same album... Seller could be wrong I guess but perhaps it stated that they're Australian in the Album?

Anyway is this a Battle Dress you think? or Aussi 4 pocket tunic? Did they wear BD's in the desert (if armored)?
Image shows 6th Australian Division in the Desert (1941)

[GCG1964]

Battle dress question

Hi Nick.

I have not seen Aust made P37 jackets dated before 1942. So maybe none were in the Desert till later. My own is dated 1943 and was possibly used by the Brits in Nth Africa.

I think the bloke in the back of Carrier photo is actually wearing a Great Coat for the following reasons, the bulky look around the neck, the height of the collar and the fact it appears not to be buttoned up, down the front. Great Coats were also fully badged up.
They were also quite restrictive when done up, especially climbing in and out of vehicles.

I'll go and hunt for some period Aust BD photos now.

Graham.

[GCG1964]

Bd

Here is a Commando badged item and,

the Official "new" BD for Armour 1941-42, quote,

"A soldier models the new uniform to be worn by soldiers of the new Australian Armoured Division tank regiment. The battle dress has no buttons to catch in projecting metal work, and a new khaki beret replaces the former black one".

Looks to be made of Khaki Drill like the British Denim version, obviously used like coveralls/work dress.
Pics from Aust War memorial website.

Graham.

[Mark Gibson]

Perhaps the Australian servicemen in your photographs are amongst those who enlisted in the Australian Army at the outbreak of war whilst in the UK. Many Australians did this.

Mark

[2ndAIF]

Here is a Commando badged item and,

the Official "new" BD for Armour 1941-42, quote,

"A soldier models the new uniform to be worn by soldiers of the new Australian Armoured Division tank regiment. The battle dress has no buttons to catch in projecting metal work, and a new khaki beret replaces the former black one".

Graham.

Wouldnt he be modeling the new black beret, opposed to the kakhi one? As kakhi berets were worn by Australian armoured units from pre war until late 1944 - early 1945.

[GCG1964]

Berets

Wouldnt he be modeling the new black beret, opposed to the kakhi one? As kakhi berets were worn by Australian armoured units from pre war until late 1944 - early 1945.

Hi 2nd AIF.

That quote was a cut and paste from the AWM site.

I'd guess the Khaki Beret never took off with the blokes and they kept the Black one.

Graham.

[2ndAIF]

All depends on who was modeling it though I suppose, plus a lot of the descriptions in the war memorials collections pages is full of errors, some times to the point where it is just laughable.
Regular Australian armoured units wore the kakhi/brown beret and didnt swap to the black beret until 1945 but cavalry and cav/commando units wore black throughout the war.
I believe the photo is from when they originally trialed BD in 1942, but the woolen version never took off, Although the JG and KD versions seem to have been popular and worn through the war.
And from memory I think that 2/7th Armoured BD tunic in the AWMs collection is a privately tailored example.

[Mr-X]

The Khaki drill BD was indeed an Armoured Corps uniform. It was worn right through the war. I have even seen pics of them dyed OG for use in New Guinea.

I am not sure that the troops in the photos at the beginning of this thread are Australian. The Field Service Caps show brass buttons which are not AMF buttons. If they were AMF they would be black.

As for the main question, I am not sure why BD was not adopted by the entire army. As mentioned it was used by specialist troops. Though I have a few pics in my collection of it also being used by the Infantry, 2/33 Battalion for example.

I suspect that there were so many Commonwealth Pattern Service Dress jackets on issue by 1942 that the army didn't want to have to replace them all with BD.

[GCG1964]

2nd 6th Commando p37 jacket

Here is one a friend of mine and fellow forum member just picked up.

I hope the photo is big enough as it shows the Aust P37 Battle Dress, and it being worn by the 2/6 Ind Coy member during leave. I believe the man was later KIA, SWPA.

Second photo shows a P37 of the 1st Australian Parachute battalion.

GCG.

[2ndAIF]

Here is one a friend of mine and fellow forum member just picked up.

I hope the photo is big enough as it shows the Aust P37 Battle Dress, and it being worn by the 2/6 Ind Coy member during leave. I believe the man was later KIA, SWPA.

Second photo shows a P37 of the 1st Australian Parachute battalion.

GCG.

Any chance of some bigger more detailed pics?

[GCG1964]

Bigger pics

I finally worked out how to do it.